Equalize the gun lobbies, two gorillas better than one

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No Fear

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You've probably been hearing the screaming from some people to join the nra and that if you don't join the nra you're a traitor.

I'm not going to knock anyone who wants to join the nra in this current time of panic and fear. It's a good idea to put our energy in the same direction of protecting the 2nd amendment.

I constantly hear the phrase "800 lb gorilla" when mentioning the nra. I have a question. Is it better to have one "800 lb gorilla" or an 800 lb gorilla WITH a 200 pounder standing nearby, who is also pissed off, and has a slightly different personality? In other words, can you win a football game with ONLY a large offensive line, or is it a good idea to maybe have a good half back, and maybe a few good receivers.

Bottom line, I'm hearing a lot of myopic viewpoints about the nra as if it's our only hope and anyone who is not a member is equal to sara brady. I'm simply saying that we need to triple the membership of Gun Owners of America. The GOA bashers who want to divert from this point so they can bash GOA make ALL gun owners weaker. I want to see a second large gun lobby. Do you attack your enemy with all your troops in ONE group or do you STRATEGIZE and send a division around the side to hit your enemy on the flank (rhetorical question).

http://www.gunowners.org/member.htm
 
I've been spending more than my usual time perusing THR lately, and I haven't heard anyone saying that the NRA is our only hope,just stating the fact that they're the largest pro-gun lobby, and joining is in our best interest.
And while this statement....."Do you attack your enemy with all your troops in ONE group or do you STRATEGIZE and send a division around the side to hit your enemy on the flank.." has some strategic merit, sometimes the old "united we stand,divided we fall" attitude is the way to go. Would it be better if all revolver owners banded together and made their case, then all bird hunters band together, then all competition shooters,etc ? Or is it better if we approach them as EIGHTY MILLION GUN OWNERS !!! See my point? :)
 
I believe that the GOA is less compromising than the NRA.

As the NRA got bigger, we have seen a bit more compromise coming from them. This is probably a necessary part of doing Washington business in their eyes and maybe in reality too but the GOA is still a small enough (although nothing to sneeze at) organization compaired to the NRA. They still have room to not compromise.
 
Don't forget to include SAF in your plans. They are doing much for which they don't get credit. NRA has often ridden on their coattails.

Pops
 
http://www.jpfo.org/

http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/about.htm

The Twin Goals of JPFO

To destroy "gun control" and to encourage Americans to understand and defend all of the Bill of Rights for everyone.

These are the twin goals of Wisconsin-based Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO).

Founded by Jews and initially aimed at educating the Jewish community about the historical evils that Jews have suffered when they have been disarmed, JPFO has always welcomed persons of all religious beliefs who share a common goal of opposing and reversing victim disarmament policies, while advancing liberty for all.
 
I like the JPFO's philosophy. And the GOA definitely doesn't compromise in its over-the-top alarmism. But I kinda like them, too.

What about SAF, though? Sane, and non-compromising.

The real purpose of GOA is to be really extreme, so that the NRA, SAF, et al. can look like the "good guys."

It's all a game. Support whatever players you can.

But recognize that the NRA has been very effective at actually influencing the political process in ways that GOA has not.
 
The 800 pound gorilla is a force to be reckoned with. Too bad the 200 pounder spends a lot of it's energy sniping at the 800 pounder.
 
I'm considering joining JPFO. Such groups help the public to see that firearms owners are much more diverse than media caricatures would suggest.

I'm debating whether I should also join GOA or if I should just donate more to the NRA.
 
Better Idea than credit given

+1 For the idea, some gun owners do not go along with the NRA, and some see it a a Fudd Club, not helping the EBR crowd, which in my opinion is where the gun grabbers will start first. It's happened before. . .
I still cant get a colapsable stock for my AR thanks to stupid NYS AW Law.
Well if I got an AR with a non removable mag, then I could . . but I digress.

Remember alot of people (Anti's) have been conditioned to think NRA = BAD, they want guns for EVERYONE and FELONS! (I've actually seen this claim on the Democratic Underground)

So if we had another lobbing group that people arn't familiar with and makes them say "umm what are they all about?" might be a good thing for us
 
+1 For the idea, some gun owners do not go along with the NRA, and some see it a a Fudd Club, not helping the EBR crowd, which in my opinion is where the gun grabbers will start first. It's happened before. . .
I still cant get a colapsable stock for my AR thanks to stupid NYS AW Law.
Well if I got an AR with a non removable mag, then I could . . but I digress.

Remember alot of people (Anti's) have been conditioned to think NRA = BAD, they want guns for EVERYONE and FELONS! (I've actually seen this claim on the Democratic Underground)

So if we had another lobbing group that people arn't familiar with and makes them say "umm what are they all about?" might be a good thing for us
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Well put.

Of course the 200 pound gorilla could always JOIN the 800 pound gorilla to become a 1000 pound gorilla.
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I already dealt with this. Obsession with size is trumped by being able to hit your enemy from multiple sides and from multiple sources.
Sometimes you need the little gorilla to get the big one moving.

AFS
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Amen.
I'm considering joining JPFO. Such groups help the public to see that firearms owners are much more diverse than media caricatures would suggest.
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Exactly. Some of you are doing a fantastic job of describing the phenomenon that we are WEAKER if we are seen as being one target (i.e. the nra). I'm amazed that some people are still suggesting that we should put our entire navy on one ship. Forcing the enemy to target multiple ships makes things harder for them. If they only have to target the nra then we have a fatal strategic problem. Something that encompasses an entire nation of hundreds of millions shouldn't be under one gun lobby anyway. It makes us look small.
 
The 800 pound gorilla is a force to be reckoned with. Too bad the 200 pounder spends a lot of it's energy sniping at the 800 pounder.
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More like 20 pounder. I think that GOA is self-serving.

Can they point to any legislation they've helped get enacted or repealed? Anyone they've influenced?

I'd like to see an effective GOA, but right now I just see an organization that takes shots at the NRA to get donations.

Yeah, GOA is represented in the media... On Coast-to-Coast AM, with the alien abductees...
 
I'm simply saying that we need to triple the membership of Gun Owners of America.
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When I look up GOA, I find Larry Pratt. When I look up Larry Pratt, I find that he spoke at a neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/militia rally in Estes Park in 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Pratt

Has he repudiated those movements and what they stand for? That's not an argument - it's a question. I would be happy to hear that he had repudiated them.

Mike
 
When I look up GOA, I find Larry Pratt. When I look up Larry Pratt, I find that he spoke at a neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/militia rally in Estes Park in 1992.
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So what. Why do you even care? This issue is bigger than Larry Pratt and you know it. I don't appreciate the off topic garbage that is not even from this DECADE. Take your personal attacks elsewhere. You got anything credible OR recent to support your point (whatever your point is)? Yea I didn't think so.

Can they point to any legislation they've helped get enacted or repealed? Anyone they've influenced?
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That is a perfectly legitimate question but it sounds like you didn't bother to glance GOA's website. GOA has influenced a lot of legislation. When Feinstein screeched from the senate floor that GOA's motto is "no compromise" then they must be having an effect. The most recent influence was the hold that was placed on the veterans disarmament act a few months ago after GOA threw a fit about the deeply flawed bill. Some minor changes were made. NRA bashed everyone who was opposed to the bill on it's ILA website.

I would like to restate the purpose of this thread: I want to see MULTIPLE decent sized gun lobbies attacking the anti gunners, not just one. I'm saying this because in the current panic, we're seeing a lot of people only urging that gun owners join the nra as they openly claim that size is all that matters. I say strategy matters more than size.
 
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No Fear said:
So what. Why do you even care?
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I'd like to be sure that there is no connection between GOA and the neo-Nazi/Christian Identity/militia movement(s) before I join.

No Fear said:
I don't appreciate the off topic garbage that is not even from this DECADE.
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The topic was (in part) about joining the GOA. I asked a question about the founder of the GOA. Do you know if he has if fact repudiated those movements?

Mike
 
I support the NRA and CATO, that way I am supporting two 800# gorillas. This is what allows the little monkeys the ability to chatter from the safety of the trees.
 
I support the NRA and CATO, that way I am supporting two 800# gorillas. Meanwhile the little monkeys chatter from the safety of the trees.
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You sound like you are saying that there is only one approach: the large group approach, and that individuals banding together in smaller groups has no merit.
 
No Fear said:
You sound like you are saying that there is only one approach: the large group approach, and that individuals banding together in smaller groups has no merit.
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Is there not a difference between a hobbyist and a professional? IMHO merit in this instance would be directly tied to efficacy, your criteria may differ.

Although why you would want to financially support a group that is ineffective is beyond me. For giggles?
 
Guns rights will never stop being under attack until and unless individual rights as a concept, with the proper philosophical foundation, are cemented in law.
 
There are plenty of gun owners organizations out there. BUT, the NRA is a lot more than simply a one issue group.

The NRA is the organizing body for nearly all shooting sports in America. They support law enforcement training and education, and pretty much every training program for any group of people in America is being trained by the NRA.

They have the largest and most powerful lobby, represent the largest and most diverse group of gun owners, maintain the National Firearms Museum and are the best organized and best funded of the groups.

In the end we won't have two 800 pound gorillas, we could end up with two 400 pound gorillas and a lot less respect from our enemies.

Just my opinion of course, but if you want to join two then join two, but keep the NRA as your top organization.
 
Are you sure it wouldn't just cause division? For instance, the most pro-gun candidate to ever make it past the primaries is running, but he(os she) doesn't believe felons should be allowed to have guns. Wouldn't the GOA attack him for that, rather than support him for being as pro-gun as he(or she) is?
 
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