Example Of How Pistol Rounds Suck

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Good Ol' Boy

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This incident has little to do with civilian SD but its a great example of how inefficient our pistols that we EDC can be.

This dude took two to the chest and walked it off. Yes he did eventually keel over but just imagine if he had been more determined in his last moments, or worse yet, on hard drugs.



 
All rounds suck. Everyone who carries a firearm for defensive purposes should learn this saying: There are no magic bullets.

If you make a study of it you will find incidences where every gun/bullet combination has failed to stop. Human beings are all different. Adrenalin and other factors figure into it. During the infamous Miami FBI shootout in 1986, Platt took a fatal hit in the first seconds of the fight yet he stayed in the fight long enough to kill 3 agents.

There are numerous examples of people who took multiple hits from everything from .44s, .45s, 8mm, 7.62x51, 7.62.39, .30, 5.56x45, 12 gauge ……..and continued to function.

Then again you can find examples of people who took what should have been a non fatal hit from a .25 auto and dropped dead right there.

You simply can’t depend on any round to stop everyone.

Train to shoot failure drills and non standard response.
 
Every hunter out there will have stories of an animal with a sure kill heart/lung shot that continued to run or even turned to attack.
The brain continues to live for minutes until it runs out of oxygen.
Without a destructive shot to the brain or a complete severance of the spinal cord the bad guy can continue to function for minutes. A lot of damage can be done in a minute.
As was mentioned earlier this is the reason for the Mozambique drill. Two to center mass and in the half second they look down one aimed shot to the brain.
If heavy narcotics or high adrenaline are involved they might not even take that half second to look at the body wound.
 
Handguns are nowhere near the hammer of Thor. Instant stops are done with CNS hits. Center of mass are easier to accomplish, but as you can see, there are tradeoffs. Had it been a stabbing or shooting attack, she could have been killed in the time it took for him to be incapacitated.
 
In all honesty, his reaction was a fairly normal reaction to being shot. It appeared to have hit him in a vital, or at least came close enough to something vital to cause enough internal bleeding to put him down. I don't really see the failure of the round, or any reason to say it "sucked". If she had mag dumped into center mass, he would have dropped a lot more quickly, but the 2 shots she did put into him, caused him to go the other way and die shortly after. I would also have to say that 1 well placed shot in the head would have turned him into a carrot in a half second. I also, have to add that this mans death seemed kind of uncalled for. Yes he was aggressive and got physical, but I did not really see a threat to her life, which is what the use of lethal force is supposed to be based on. Qualified immunity needs to go right a long with paying out the lawsuits using tax payer funds but this is not the forum for that kind of discussion.
 
Awesome post!

People underestimate the power and resiliency of the biological machine that is the human body.

It is designed by nature to be a tough, self-healing, self-replicating machine that requires only food and water to operate.

It's got a complex and redundant system of levers and pulleys mounted on a multi jointed superstructure with an integrated heating/cooling system, fuel delivery system, and waste disposal system.

It's got an integral, self-programing computer and control network.

It even has an on board drug manufacturing capability capable of blocking or mitigating the effects of pain and boosting strength and speed.

All covered by an exceptionally tough, but resilient and flexible, hide.

It's truly a marvel of bioengineering capable of tremendous feats under a variety of conditions.

Not nearly so fragile as Hollywood and fiction writers would have us believe.
 
How this works on gun forums, the Theory of Incapacitation Based on Who is Pulling the Trigger.:
That man was not quickly incapacitated by a couple of at least 9mm HP because a cop pulled the trigger.
If that had been a civilian pulling the trigger couple rounds of 32 acp FMJ would have quickly incapacitated, given same shot placement.
The flawed theory of incapacitation based on who is pulling the trigger allows rationalization of less than 9mm for some civilians.
 
I tend to agree with upptick, she was giving off a submissive vibe, as opposed to being believably authoritative, and the way she was shooting, was more of a "I dont know if I should be doing this" sort of thing, instead of a forceful rapid response that you would expect if she was really in fear of her life. We never did see any weapons, but his hands were in his pockets a good bit of that, so who knows. His hands were out when she shot him though. But hey, armchair quarterbacking is a lot easier than doing it live. It will be interesting to hear how that investigation plays out too. I think shes on shaky ground there.

At that distance, and with him basically static, I personally wouldnt have wasted any rounds on COM, and would go right for the head with a couple of quick shots. The response would likely be much different.

What happened there just reinforces the decisions I made a while ago now on how I practice these days in responding at different distances. Anything close gets immediate and multiple head shots. Anything close needs to go down RIGHT NOW, and there is no other way I know to get that quickly, than a quick burst to the head/CNS. I dont see the point on wasting time and ammo on COM at that point.

Further out, sure, COM makes more sense and its just a bigger target and youre more likely to get hits, especially if things are active and everyone is moving.

And you have to learn to shoot quickly and in rapid bursts and to be able to do so accurately, especially up close. The time to stop and evaluate is when they are down, not after each round. If they are still in the sights or in your focus over top of the gun as your shooting, you keep shooting and adjust your targets as you go, if you need to, until they arent.
 
A homeless guy faces down a female sheriff deputy and she shoots him when he wont comply with her orders. Never saw a weapon. Looked more like a police type training film, up until she shot him anyway.
 
A larger / stronger male officer likely would not have resorted to lethal force so quickly. In other words, diversity played a role in that man's death.
I feel the Officer did a great job. The homeless person got to close and was not listening to her directions. A male officer that thought he could have physically stopped the homeless man could have been a victim.
 
A homeless guy faces down a female sheriff deputy and she shoots him when he wont comply with her orders. Never saw a weapon. Looked more like a police type training film, up until she shot him anyway.

Indeed. The film might also have been about the relative ineffectiveness of pistols (unless the hit is to the CNS) and could've included examples of what happens when someone takes two rounds of 5.56 to the chest or a couple of shotgun blasts from close range.
 
I feel the Officer did a great job. The homeless person got to close and was not listening to her directions. A male officer that thought he could have physically stopped the homeless man could have been a victim.

...or the homeless dude would not have been nearly so froggy with a large man...
 
He promised to kill her, and seemed like he was (slowly) intent on following through. I doubt he was rational enough to care what size of an officer was there. He said that he was protecting the whole country by himself, and I don't think that means he has a high functioning rational brain.

YMMV but I saw similar responses from smaller people hit with 5.56 in the chest. The only one who stopped immediately had his pelvis shattered.
 
As far as the OP handgun cartridges stink in stopping unless to the central nervous system.

The video does emphasize a huge problem that we have in this country. Mental Health!
Mass shootings, homelessness, drugs use, all stem from Mental Health.
 
I feel the Officer did a great job. The homeless person got to close and was not listening to her directions. A male officer that thought he could have physically stopped the homeless man could have been a victim.

If there were enough of them they could have subdued him, Rodney King style as far as not killing him but skip the beating.

She also had less lethal stuff on her person.

That said, when a police officer tells you to stop or they are going to shoot, “shoot!” Doesn’t seem to be the correct response, if you want to keep on living.
 
I always figured that a handgun was what you used - if no stronger medicine was at hand (and in a nutshell - why I always brought a standard riot gun to the party on any hot calls..). The results of wounding (or trying to wound) another human animal are so random as to constitute real uncertainty if you're facing a life or death situation... That situation is to be avoided if at all possible in my opinion...

One individual hit center of mass not only doesn't go down - they're coming after you even while dying - and very, very angry... The next is hit a minor wound, goes into shock and dies right there... and no way to know until it happens what you'll be facing after you do employ deadly force when you have no other choice...

Given what I've described, plan accordingly, well in advance of any need to engage in an armed confrontation.. That's my best advice (and I don't consider myself particularly experienced in that world since I only encountered it a very few times in a 22 year career as a cop). Put simply, I'm not a gunfighter - and don't ever want to be a gunfighter... Very glad I'm long retired from police work and hope to spend my remaining years peacefully if at all possible.
 
I can't get over the 911 dispatcher asking the caller if he wants them to come out and trespass the guy! Why do you think I called in the first place? Just to shoot the bull?
 
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