FAIL: Mags falling out of PTR-91 GI

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Panzerschwein

Panzerschwein

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Hello everyone!

I literally just got back from the range 15 minutes ago and I was shooting my brand new PTR-91 GI.

The gun shot very well, BUT, I experienced issues with 2 of the 5 magazines I brought with me. These were all used surplus HK steel magazines. Okay, so basically, the two mags were doing the same thing. After the first shot or two, both mags would either drop half way out of the mag well, or simply fall all the way out and bounce on the shooting table! Needles to say, I was disappointed! Since I only paid $2.75 per mag, I actually tossed one of the mags in the garbage can on the firing line, think it was just a bum mag. When this happend to another mag, I started to worry.

So, here I am at home, with the three working mags and one of the mags that would fall out. After fiddling with the gun, it appears the suspect magazine really does stay in place quite well. I am unable to get it to come out even if I turn the darn rifle upside down and shake it by the mag! But, I just noticed that when I pull down on the magazine and apply just a touch of pressure to the magazine release button, this suspect mag pops right out. The other ones don't do that: when I pull down on them, the magazine release button won't even go down and the magazines are stuck in there.

So, I am wondering if I just got a couple bum magazines OR is it my magazine release mechanism that is defective? I just got a paddle magazine release done by Bill Springfield, and it works really nicely. I am not sure if that is the cause of the problem though because the only other mag I've run in this gun has been the aluminum one that came with it from the factory, before I shipped it off to Bill. It didn't fall out though.

So I am just wondering what you all think. Should I test the rest of my steel mags and see if they do the same thing? Should I probably go about messing with the internals of the gun, or just chalk it up to old surplus mags? If you all could help me, I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks!

UPDATE: Here are some pictures of my mag catch. The top of the catch is smooth and somewhat rounded, almost looks like a line of welding or something. Is it supposed to be squared off? On the bottom of the catch there is an angled flat. Not sure if it's supposed to look like that:

Es_WHxbjt_W5_ZAe_UAa_Ca2_DXKy_RQU2l89q_SBZgaw_WSEJa4.jpg
 
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It's a used, cheap mag. Trash it and buy another gross.
20150802_195044_zps7lhi0rc6.jpg




ETA: Do make sure you are rocking the mags in. Catching the front and rocking back.
 
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dogmush said:
It's a used, cheap mag. Trash it and buy another gross.

ETA: Do make sure you are rocking the mags in. Catching the front and rocking back.
Click to expand...

Yup, I rock them in. Still though, it's a little disconcerting... two of the five steel mags I had out dropped out of the gun. It shouldn't do that right? These mags are old and cheap, but they are true HK and aren't too beat up. I'm just hoping I won't have to replace my mag catch or something like that because I don't have the slightest clue on how to do that, no obvious screws to take out or anything.
 
Eh. I wouldn't worry too much. I've had several surplus mags be bad out of the wrapper. If the failure rate stays near 50% over 10-15 mags, then worry.

The mag catch has a roll pin through the button holding it all together. No biggie to get out, but can be a pain to get back in. I have to use a bar clamp to hold everything while I put the pin in.

The paddle should be welded in, so don't mess with it.
 
Hmm... maybe the rounded portion on mine is to blame? I'm really unsure. Maybe I should just change my mag catch out and retest the offending mags, and see if they work?
 
How bad is the rounding? It's hard to tell in your pics.

Maybe replace it, maybe sand it flat, maybe it looks worse then it is.

You could take the guts out of the offending mag, lock it in with the bolt back, and use a flashlight to inspect the catch/mag interface. Go from there.
 
dogmush said:
How bad is the rounding? It's hard to tell in your pics.

Maybe replace it, maybe sand it flat, maybe it looks worse then it is.

You could take the guts out of the offending mag, lock it in with the bolt back, and use a flashlight to inspect the catch/mag interface. Go from there.
Click to expand...
It's pretty rounded, and quite smooth. It looks like a little line of arc welding or something.
 
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Look at the front edge of the feed box of the suspect mag. There is a horizontal slot which engages the tenon on the bottom of the trunnion, located maybe .2 inches from the top edge of the magazine opening over which the rounds feed. If that mag has been slammed in a la AR15, then this slot will be deformed. Mashed inwards towards the bullet tips as they rest in the magazine. Discard any that have this deformity, unless perchance you can correct it.

This might reduce your failure rate.
 
Have you given the factory a call and asked them about it? I got the impression they were helpful when you called before.
 
Those are my mags. I was trying to make a point about just stocking up on surplus G3 mags.
 
I preferred the aluminum ones over steel when I still had my HK.

SC
 
From your pictures it looks like your magazine catch is bad. I check my catch and its square with no bevel edges, Who put the paddle release on it? Semper Fi.
 
72guns92 said:
From your pictures it looks like your magazine catch is bad. I check my catch and its square with no bevel edges, Who put the paddle release on it? Semper Fi.
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Sounds like Bill Springfield did it. He doesn't have many fans on the Falfiles due to his trigger jobs. Seems they start double firing after several hundred rounds. BATF no-no.

Good luck with the rest of it Cool. Hope you get it fixed right.

M
 
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M1key said:
Sounds like Bill Springfield did it. He doesn't have many fans on the Falfiles due to his trigger jobs. Seems they start double firing after several hundred rounds. BATF no-no.

Good luck with the rest of it Cool. Hope you get it fixed right.

M
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I'll be replacing it soon with an HK magazine catch. Hopefully it solves the problem. It does appear "Ol Bill" gets mixed reviews, with the negative ones being surprisingly bad. I can't honestly say for sure whether or not he ruined my rifle, I didn't bother to look at the mag catch beforehand.
 
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And this is why it's always a good idea to establish a functional baseline with a new gun before making any mods to it... :)
 
rbernie said:
And this is why it's always a good idea to establish a functional baseline with a new gun before making any mods to it... :)
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Well I put a hundred rounds of .308 ammo through it... though not with the steel magazines. Still, it shouldn't be doing this.
 
Well I put a hundred rounds of .308 ammo through it... though not with the steel magazines.
Click to expand...
And that was the point that I was making. Not trying to make you feel bad, because we've all done it, but there really is a strong grain of truth to the notion that the whole system (gun, mags, ammo) needs to be proven reliable and working first before making changes. It certainly helps make the troubleshooting easier.

Still, it shouldn't be doing this.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
 
Cooldill said:
Well hopefully I can get this issue fixed, somehow. If not, Ill get rid of the rifle.
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Dude.

It's a $7.00 part, and one roll pin. Hopefully we're a long way from getting rid of the rifle.

Hell PTR might give you one if you send them a picture of yours.
 
I've built a number of Cetme/HK rifles over the years and wrote a couple of tutorials on Weaponsguild. One photo that might help you figure it out quick has to do with finishing the mag catch slot width.

If you're not the type to remove the 1/16" roll pin from your mag release button and disassemble the catch assembly to see exactly what's happening you ought to be able to insert a mag and look into the slot while the button is pushed to see where your mag lip is in relation to the top of the catch slot.


Magcutoutexplained.jpg

There are dimensional differences with various magazines as a result of the manufacturing process, especially between steel and aluminum mags. You can always file the lip on the side of a mag to raise it enough to match the height of your catch slot.
 
Cooldill said:
So you think it's probably just a bad/malformed mag catch?
Click to expand...

Well, I don't have the rifle on my bench, so I hate to get too sure of my self.

That mag catch certainly looks wierd. I can't tell without closer examination if it's just badly made, or if someone purposly modified it.

If it's just a defective part, that happens. Replace it and move on.

If someone modded the part that begs the question: Why? Were mags sitting too low in the reciver, and someone tried to lift the upper edge of the mag catch? That's some Century Arms level stuff there.

As I recall you bought this rifle new. Personally, I'm a do it yourselfer, I build more guns then I buy. So were it mine, I'd get Robert RTG to send me a mag catch, install it, then pull the followers and springs from a bunch of different mags and see what's going on. Obviously there are tolerances in everything but the mags should all be pretty close. I don't KNOW thhat your catch is bad, but it looks wonky, and is cheap, so I'd swap it.

That said, if you aren't the wrench on it type, It's a brand new, $1000 rifle. Call PTR, show them you pictures, and maybe take a quick video of the mags falling out. It's got a warranty.

Me though.....I'd fix it.
 
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