DMF38
Member
I'm just starting to load for .30-.30 and would be curious about what loads people are using. What type powder, how much, what kind of primers, neck-sized or full-length sized cases, etc.?
Favorite .30-.30 load?
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The Bushmaster
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Remington or Winchester cases primed with CCI 200. 32.0 grains of W-748 under a 170 grain Speer FNSP. Crimped heavy using a Lee FCD. Fired from a 1949 Winchester Mod 94 WCF. Three holes in a three inch dot at 100 yards bench resting.
rbernie
Contributing Member
My version of the GooseGestapo Special: 35gr of Reloader15, RP case, CCI primer, Sierra 150gr FP. Routinely (as in always) gives a sub-2" five shot group load out of my 16" Marlin 336 at 100 yards, and groups are usually right around 1.5"....
Firehand
Member
Federal or Winchester cases, 28.0 grains of IMR3031, 170-grain Hornady bullet.
It's what mine seems to like best.
It's what mine seems to like best.
GooseGestapo
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RL-15 @35.0gr (36.0 max per Alliant) gives ~2,400fps from 20"bbl
150gr Remington CorLokt Round Nose Soft pt. seated to cannulure and Lee Fact. Crimp
Federal #210 or Winchester Large Rifle primer
Match brass make, and trim to min. spec.
(this load can be VERY destructive on WhiteTail deer, results often resemble that of a .300mag at close range)
or;
RL-15 @ 33.0gr (34.1gr max per Alliant) gives 2,300fps from 20"bbl
170gr Remington Corlokt
rest as above.
Hornady,Nosler, Sierra FN or RN bullets may be substituted for the Remington
(Better for game over 300lbs or under 50yds)
These are the best current available loads for the .30/30.
These will approximate the performance offered by the Hornady LeverEvolution loads. Whenever Hornady begins to offer the 160gr LE bullet, we will then be able to equal it with approx 34.0gr of RL-15. Should give nearly 2,400fps from 20"bbl. (note Hornady give velocities of LE from 24"bbls. From 20"bbl it gives ~2,350fps- not a slam, just observed results- still the best current factory ammo. Next best is the Winchester Supreme "Power Plus". The above 150gr load duplicates the "Power Plus" load)
The above loads generate less than 40,000cup. You should adjust your sizing die to just "kiss" the shoulder of your fired brass.
I have noticed that full lenght sized brass will not obturate to the chamber with these loads. If you are completely sizing your brass, you will notice that the primers will back out some upon firing to meet the bolt face. This is from the force of the firing pin pushing the case foward upon striking the primer. The pressures are quite low on these loads, but velocity is highest currently possible with available powders for the .30/30.
Best accuracy will occur when the brass fits the chamber, so you may want to fire form your brass with a long seated cast bullet and modest load with the bullet seated to touch the lands. These will of course need to be single fed to the chamber.
Good luck with your efforts to load the .30/30. It was my first centerfire rifle cart. I reloaded. Still one of my favorites.
Other powders that do really well in the .30/30:
H4895; 33.5gr w/150gr
IMR3031; 31.0gr w/150gr
H335
H322; Particlularily good with 125gr FNHP Sierra Use 35.5gr for 2,600fps (20")
BL-C2 (Win748, what Winchester uses for factory loads- 35.7 w/150gr bullets)
H414 (170gr or heavier)
Reloader#7
IMR4064
As you can see, many options. The above are some of the combinations I've tried through the years and the best are the ones I've given charge recommendations for.
Not mentioned are the cast bullet loads.
Another topic for another day !!!
150gr Remington CorLokt Round Nose Soft pt. seated to cannulure and Lee Fact. Crimp
Federal #210 or Winchester Large Rifle primer
Match brass make, and trim to min. spec.
(this load can be VERY destructive on WhiteTail deer, results often resemble that of a .300mag at close range)
or;
RL-15 @ 33.0gr (34.1gr max per Alliant) gives 2,300fps from 20"bbl
170gr Remington Corlokt
rest as above.
Hornady,Nosler, Sierra FN or RN bullets may be substituted for the Remington
(Better for game over 300lbs or under 50yds)
These are the best current available loads for the .30/30.
These will approximate the performance offered by the Hornady LeverEvolution loads. Whenever Hornady begins to offer the 160gr LE bullet, we will then be able to equal it with approx 34.0gr of RL-15. Should give nearly 2,400fps from 20"bbl. (note Hornady give velocities of LE from 24"bbls. From 20"bbl it gives ~2,350fps- not a slam, just observed results- still the best current factory ammo. Next best is the Winchester Supreme "Power Plus". The above 150gr load duplicates the "Power Plus" load)
The above loads generate less than 40,000cup. You should adjust your sizing die to just "kiss" the shoulder of your fired brass.
I have noticed that full lenght sized brass will not obturate to the chamber with these loads. If you are completely sizing your brass, you will notice that the primers will back out some upon firing to meet the bolt face. This is from the force of the firing pin pushing the case foward upon striking the primer. The pressures are quite low on these loads, but velocity is highest currently possible with available powders for the .30/30.
Best accuracy will occur when the brass fits the chamber, so you may want to fire form your brass with a long seated cast bullet and modest load with the bullet seated to touch the lands. These will of course need to be single fed to the chamber.
Good luck with your efforts to load the .30/30. It was my first centerfire rifle cart. I reloaded. Still one of my favorites.
Other powders that do really well in the .30/30:
H4895; 33.5gr w/150gr
IMR3031; 31.0gr w/150gr
H335
H322; Particlularily good with 125gr FNHP Sierra Use 35.5gr for 2,600fps (20")
BL-C2 (Win748, what Winchester uses for factory loads- 35.7 w/150gr bullets)
H414 (170gr or heavier)
Reloader#7
IMR4064
As you can see, many options. The above are some of the combinations I've tried through the years and the best are the ones I've given charge recommendations for.
Not mentioned are the cast bullet loads.
Another topic for another day !!!
OP
OP
DMF38
Member
Thanks for the great advice everyone! It's nice to hear the voice of experience. I have a Win94 30-30 and plan to start reloading for it in a week or two. I've only reloaded .45 Colt so far.
The Bushmaster
Member
DMF38...Be aware that the .30-30 case is a little delicate. If you try to put too much of a crimp on it without the Lee Factory Crimp Die (FCD) it may collapse just below the shoulder. They don't like too much downward pressure that most bulletseaters/crimpers give. also be careful not let the case exceed the maximum length by very much as you will experience lock up problems when trying to close the bolt and forcing the case mouth into where the bullet is supposed to be in the chamber Experience? I've been loading .30-30 for my "Jack Handle"D ) for around 20 years. My load I gave you above is an excellent deer load and will not tax your rifle. 170 grain Speer bullet with my load data will give you right at 2000 fps.
D ) for around 20 years. My load I gave you above is an excellent deer load and will not tax your rifle. 170 grain Speer bullet with my load data will give you right at 2000 fps.
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GooseGestapo
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Actually, the Lee factory Crimp WON'T COLLAPSE THE SHOULDER
However, if you use a conventional die (part of the seating die), you can collapse the shoulder.
Hence, my STRONG recommendation that you trim all cases before the first loading as many of the factory OFB brass will exceed maximum allowable OAL, and will vary at that.
Lee sells such tools for less than $12.00 for case length gauge, shell holder (packaged together), and the Case spinner and cutter (Only one needed, then for additional cases/calibers, you only need buy the shell holder and length gauge. I even prefer to use the shell holder and spinner when using my Forster Hand Neck turner)
If you have adjusted your STANDARD crimp on a "short" case, and then attempt to crimp a "long" case, YES, then you will likely collapse a shoulder.
The Lee Factory Crimp die is a collet type die that uses the shell holder contacting a sleeve/collet that uses a shoulder within the die to "squeeze" the crimp onto the neck of the case, preventing pushing back the shoulder and collapsing the shoulder.
You should still trim the cases the first time, and monitor the length and trim when they reach max. length. After second trimming and reaching max, TOSS THEM OUT. They will have a head separation before reaching the third trimming.
This also applys to the .22 Hornet, and .32/20.
Don't ask me how I know !!!!
BTW; none of my loads will tax your rifle either, as most are well below the 40,000cup level of factory ammo.
However, if you use a conventional die (part of the seating die), you can collapse the shoulder.
Hence, my STRONG recommendation that you trim all cases before the first loading as many of the factory OFB brass will exceed maximum allowable OAL, and will vary at that.
Lee sells such tools for less than $12.00 for case length gauge, shell holder (packaged together), and the Case spinner and cutter (Only one needed, then for additional cases/calibers, you only need buy the shell holder and length gauge. I even prefer to use the shell holder and spinner when using my Forster Hand Neck turner)
If you have adjusted your STANDARD crimp on a "short" case, and then attempt to crimp a "long" case, YES, then you will likely collapse a shoulder.
The Lee Factory Crimp die is a collet type die that uses the shell holder contacting a sleeve/collet that uses a shoulder within the die to "squeeze" the crimp onto the neck of the case, preventing pushing back the shoulder and collapsing the shoulder.
You should still trim the cases the first time, and monitor the length and trim when they reach max. length. After second trimming and reaching max, TOSS THEM OUT. They will have a head separation before reaching the third trimming.
This also applys to the .22 Hornet, and .32/20.
Don't ask me how I know !!!!
BTW; none of my loads will tax your rifle either, as most are well below the 40,000cup level of factory ammo.
shooting on a shoestring
Member
Mine likes faster
I have an older Mod 94 (50's I think) thats seen lots of hard use before mine. The barrel has some nasty scrapes inside. I neck size only, use 30.0 gr old circa 1960's 4895 (Dad bought 100 pounds in the late 60's) pushing a Sierra 170 gr at 1920 fps (per my Oehler 35P). It will make 3", 5 shot, 100 yd, bench rested groups just as long as I feel the need for the pounding. Odd though, if I back off to 29.5 gr (1850 fps) or slower, the groups quickly open up to 4" to 5". At 1700 its 6" groups. I've tried 150 gr bullets from slow to max and the best I get is 4" groups with 35.0 gr 4895 at 2280 fps. Thats really acceptable for a loose old lever gun, but I go with the 170s just to tighten up that other inch. As I'm writing this, I wonder if I can measure the difference between my 150 and 170 loads if I'm shooting off hand. Looks like I need a trip to the range.
I have an older Mod 94 (50's I think) thats seen lots of hard use before mine. The barrel has some nasty scrapes inside. I neck size only, use 30.0 gr old circa 1960's 4895 (Dad bought 100 pounds in the late 60's) pushing a Sierra 170 gr at 1920 fps (per my Oehler 35P). It will make 3", 5 shot, 100 yd, bench rested groups just as long as I feel the need for the pounding. Odd though, if I back off to 29.5 gr (1850 fps) or slower, the groups quickly open up to 4" to 5". At 1700 its 6" groups. I've tried 150 gr bullets from slow to max and the best I get is 4" groups with 35.0 gr 4895 at 2280 fps. Thats really acceptable for a loose old lever gun, but I go with the 170s just to tighten up that other inch. As I'm writing this, I wonder if I can measure the difference between my 150 and 170 loads if I'm shooting off hand. Looks like I need a trip to the range.
Alvin in AZ
Member
100gr or 110gr soft round nosed bullets at 2200fps.
Started loading that in the early 70's using a "lee loader" and shot a lot of jackrabbits with them for cheaper than a buddy that had a 22 magnum.
Those bullets can be loaded to 2400fps easy and even 2700fps but I never really cared for shooting the hotter loads.
27gr IMR 4198
31gr IMR 3031
...those are the two standards but have used 748 4064 4895 H4895 4320 and even 4350. Slower powders are kinda cool feeling when you shoot them.
Recently pulled the bullets from a hand full of loaded shells I found (turned out to be military .30 Tokarev?) that were left laying with too-light primer dents.
95 grain FMJ loaded single shot, shot about as good as anything else including 165 gr Nosler boatails.
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/reloads.jpg
What have you got in mind for your 30-30?
Alvin in AZ
Started loading that in the early 70's using a "lee loader" and shot a lot of jackrabbits with them for cheaper than a buddy that had a 22 magnum.
Those bullets can be loaded to 2400fps easy and even 2700fps but I never really cared for shooting the hotter loads.
27gr IMR 4198
31gr IMR 3031
...those are the two standards but have used 748 4064 4895 H4895 4320 and even 4350. Slower powders are kinda cool feeling when you shoot them.
Recently pulled the bullets from a hand full of loaded shells I found (turned out to be military .30 Tokarev?) that were left laying with too-light primer dents.
95 grain FMJ loaded single shot, shot about as good as anything else including 165 gr Nosler boatails.
http://www.panix.com/~alvinj/file12/reloads.jpg
What have you got in mind for your 30-30?
Alvin in AZ
Not for deer but a good accurate cast bullet load I use is 165 Meister FP Lead bullet over 7.5 grains of Unique. Gives you 1260 fps and energy similar to a 357 Mag in a revolver. Easy on you, the gun, and doesn't lead Marlin Micro Groove barrels. Lets you plink for a lot less than jacketed bullets but has enough power to shoot anything you would use a 357 Mag for.
OP
OP
DMF38
Member
Yep, I'll be using the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I bought the Lee deluxe die set for .30-.30, plus the FCD. I know I need a good crimp for any gun with a tubular magazine. I use a Lee Classic Cast Turret press, and it's been great so far with .45 Colt. For the .30-.30 I'll try the RL 15 powder and a few others to see what I like best. I bought my model 94 new about ten years ago, at K-mart. So it's in great condition and I sure do love that gun. I'll carefully work up loads to see what's most accurate. I only target shoot with it.
It sounds like fire-forming and neck-sizing is the way to go. And I'll trim all the brass before I load them the first time. Should I full-length size them after every few loadings? Or should I just keep neck-sizing them until I have to throw the brass out? I've read that some guys can get 10 reloadings out of the 30-30 brass. And I'll be careful about checking the OAL to see if they need trimming. Thanks for the help everyone!
It sounds like fire-forming and neck-sizing is the way to go. And I'll trim all the brass before I load them the first time. Should I full-length size them after every few loadings? Or should I just keep neck-sizing them until I have to throw the brass out? I've read that some guys can get 10 reloadings out of the 30-30 brass. And I'll be careful about checking the OAL to see if they need trimming. Thanks for the help everyone!
GooseGestapo
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With the regular Lee sizer/decapper die, you'll be essentially full lenght sizing with every sizing. What you don't want to do is set back the shoulder every time you size them. If you do this, the cases will need trimming every 2-3rd loading and will only last 5-6 loadings before you start seeing a bright ring about 3/4" above the rim. Accuracy will be less, too. If you see this "ring", toss it. To see what we are talking about, take a pair of pliers and squeeze it just above the bright mark. The case will tear like it has been perforated at the bright mark where it has thinned from stretching during every sizing.
The Lee collet die will only size down the neck, but after the 2nd or 3rd loading need run through the regular die for easy chambering. If the regular die is properly set, no need for the collet die unless you are shooting something like cast bullet bench rest matches where the last 0.1" in accuracy is critical. Your hunting loads MUST be loaded with the regular die to chamber easily, especially when shooting quickly as in multiple deer or bear that won't lay down.
DFM38; What part of MA ? My wifes from Southbridge.
The Lee collet die will only size down the neck, but after the 2nd or 3rd loading need run through the regular die for easy chambering. If the regular die is properly set, no need for the collet die unless you are shooting something like cast bullet bench rest matches where the last 0.1" in accuracy is critical. Your hunting loads MUST be loaded with the regular die to chamber easily, especially when shooting quickly as in multiple deer or bear that won't lay down.
DFM38; What part of MA ? My wifes from Southbridge.
OP
OP
DMF38
Member
GooseGestapo, thanks for the great info! So I don't want to full-length size any more often than I have to. I don't hunt, and I'm not a serious target shooter either -- I just like plinking in my back yard. I live in Brookfield, which is only a couple towns away from Southbridge. Small world!
The Bushmaster
Member
That sure is a lot of effort and steps to go through just to load a little ol' .30-30 round. I would recommend you full size every time you prep a .30-30 case. Just my (NSH) opinion. I have been full sizing Remington and Winchester .30-30 cases for years and I get 8 to 10 loadings out of them and I insure that the shoulder is properly located whether it needs set back or set forward. In the case of my Winchester M 94 (circa 1949) it requires that the shoulder be set forward by .030" or I have partial primer backout. My .30-30 resizing/decapper die is set .030" off the shell holder to accomplish this and the cases require chamber form firing the first time out. 'course. What do I know.
DMF38...Enjoy experimenting with your .30-30. You can get surprizing accuracy from this round. Nothing spactacular, but....If all you are planing to do is target shoot in your backyard you might try the 110 grain FNSP bullet.
Never said that a Lee FCD would crush a .30-30 case. Infact I said just the opposit. I highly recommend using a Lee FCD...
DMF38...Enjoy experimenting with your .30-30. You can get surprizing accuracy from this round. Nothing spactacular, but....If all you are planing to do is target shoot in your backyard you might try the 110 grain FNSP bullet.
Never said that a Lee FCD would crush a .30-30 case. Infact I said just the opposit. I highly recommend using a Lee FCD...
Pumpkinheaver
Member
I use IMR-3031 inder a 170gr Hornady.
GooseGestapo
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Bushmaster, you're achieving exactly what I was recommending. But, you having obviously reloaded for longer know where to set the die. But, with various chambers and loading die makes, 0.030 won't do it for every situation. My dies and gun(s) require about 0.050" on average.
But then we AREN'T full length sizing are we ?!
At least not according to either RCBS or LYMAN.
They call this "PARTIAL" full length sizing.
Without the dissertation, he wouldn't have known what the "heck" what we were talking about.
And you're correct bushy, I read too fast and missed the "without" and read "with". My apologies.
But then we AREN'T full length sizing are we ?!
At least not according to either RCBS or LYMAN.
They call this "PARTIAL" full length sizing.
Without the dissertation, he wouldn't have known what the "heck" what we were talking about.
And you're correct bushy, I read too fast and missed the "without" and read "with". My apologies.
The Bushmaster
Member
Apology heartily excepted... It's obvious that the two of us have done a lot of experimenting with the .30-30 and have evidently had good success doing it. With all the various and so called "better" calibres, my Winchester Mod 94 is still one of my favorite rifles to hunt with. One just needs to know its limits.
It's obvious that the two of us have done a lot of experimenting with the .30-30 and have evidently had good success doing it. With all the various and so called "better" calibres, my Winchester Mod 94 is still one of my favorite rifles to hunt with. One just needs to know its limits.superhornet
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It is nice to see so many people load this old work horse the 30-30. I do not have as much loading experience as most of you (1949) but really enjoy making different loads for this caliber.....One of the best shots I ever made was using the 30-30 in SS, with a load of W748 pushing a CT Ballistic Silver Tip, 150 grain.....220 yards........good luck and Happy Turkey to you all.........
If you're mainly plinking in your back yard the cast bullet load I mentioned should serve you fine. I full length resize the brass and due to the low pressures of th eload I mentioned the case hardly expands and it feels like I'm jusr neck sizing.
Alvin in AZ
Member
(don't know how to quote here)
Grizz's remarks made me remember a guy that calls himself "Whiskey Brother" I ran across on some website forum, he was shooting resized buckshot out of an old Arisaka bolt action using only shotgun primers and specially drilled cases to accept 209's.
Anybody here ever try that?
He said they were dirty and the bore needed cleaning often.
Don't primers have glass in them?
Might want to clean between every shot? :/
Alvin in AZ
ps- I got over 500 157's
Grizz's remarks made me remember a guy that calls himself "Whiskey Brother" I ran across on some website forum, he was shooting resized buckshot out of an old Arisaka bolt action using only shotgun primers and specially drilled cases to accept 209's.
Anybody here ever try that?
He said they were dirty and the bore needed cleaning often.
Don't primers have glass in them?
Might want to clean between every shot? :/
Alvin in AZ
ps- I got over 500 157's
CZ57
member
Looks like everything is pretty well covered, so I thought I'd throw in the True Cast 170 gr. gas check FP and 25.0 grs. of Ramshot X-Terminator. Accurate plinker in the Winchester 94 and can be loaded faster for game.
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