FBI: More People Killed with Fists, Feet, Than Rifles per UCR

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It's actually good that the FBI's UCR articulates these facts. First, there are some folks that actually pay attention. Second, as far as legal proceedings or proposed government actions, this will certainly help validate disparity of force cases when elderly/disabled/injured/petite folk have to use deadly force against unarmed assailants. Or even LEOs (i.e., the Michael Brown/Ferguson MO case).

But at some point, those with a modicum of critical thinking skills will take note that the so-called "assault rifles" are not a commonly used tool of criminals nor almost all murderers in this country.
 
My AR-15, sitting in the safe right now, has never killed anyone. Ever. Hasn't even tried to.

So much for the idea of the "dangerous assault rifle." Hey, I have a great idea, let's ban pit bulls since less than 1% of them viciously attack people... But hey, we see it in the news, so we have to do something! Nobody should own a dangerous assault dog!
 
How many vicious brutes capable of killing "unarmed" using their "personal weapons" (as FBI styles hands, fist, feet) are stopped by intended victims using guns?

If the US did as the UK does and followed homicides through the court system and removed homicides acquitted on grounds of self defense from previous years' murder statistics, I suspect the US justifiable homicide stats would be much different from the FBI UCR Justified Homicide Stat based on police coding their UCR homicides reports to FBI as 09 or 09C "looks like self defense".
 
All of our media (news, TV, cinema) puts firearm use up in headlights since it's eye catching to begin with (and who wouldn't want to be the avenging hero in some situations?)... That said, in the real world (or at least in this retired cop's experience...) killings on the street are frequently much more basic and simple since our species will use whatever means is at hand in serious conflict mode - from fire, drowning, to automobiles as killing instruments, to simply using that same rock that Cain used on Abel... and everything in between....

This doesn't include drugs at all - but on the street deliberate "hot shots" or combinations of drugs have long been a favorite among users with a grudge or other incentive... Rarely ever is an overdose death attributed to a deliberate killing - and yet it happens every day...

Of course those that abhor firearms - or simply want to control everything possible - will never acknowledge the above facts - and for those "true believers" - they rarely allow "facts" to come into play at all. Emotional appeal is their best tactic - and unfortunately, it works among a population that only knows about firearms from movies and television...
 
Old Dog said:
But at some point, those with a modicum of critical thinking skills will take note that the so-called "assault rifles" are not a commonly used tool of criminals nor almost all murderers in this country.
Click to expand...

It sounds so simple, doesn't it? Someone points out an OBVIOUS fact, and the gun-grabbers say "Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I guess I was wrong all along." In a reasonable world it would work that way. My experience has been different (or at least my observation). Gun-grabbers seem to fall into one (sometimes both) of two groups:

1) Those who don't have any critical thinking skills whatsoever, and

2) Those who hate guns and gun owners and will do anything they can think of to oppose them.

The number 2 gun-haters have no problem at all violating the Constitution or established case law. They know that even an obviously unconstitutional law will take years to get through the court system and when that law fails, they'll simply try something else. They NEVER recognize that the laws are ineffective and move to repeal them. The solution is always to add more.

Edit: Old Dog, please don't think I'm being critical of your comments. I am sure we agree 100 percent on all gun issues.

Tim
 
The anti 2A campaigners are propagandists who ignore facts. They not only ignore FBI data they also ignore CDC data that shows a higher number of civilians using guns for defense. From the article at: https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cdc-study-use-firearms-self-defense-important-crime-deterrent

The Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council released the results of their research through the CDC last month. Researchers compiled data from previous studies in order to guide future research on gun violence, noting that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year.”
Click to expand...
 
Don't be too hasty to throw this kind of thing around. Breitbart is taking some liberties with its writing. While they do cite their source, what they don't mention is that they are using the FBI's data reporting format to infer a point, rather than the data itself.
Here is the link to the table Breitbart used for its 2019 numbers although their numbers are different in the article. It's close enough for our purposes here. Please note that the FBI lists each type of firearm when that data is available. When it's not, it gets recorded as "Type not Stated".
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls

What we see, while true on its face, doesn't address a couple points that immediately went up in my mind.
First, why compare an entire category of weapons against one single type? Sure, rifles killed fewer people than personal weapons, but shouldn't you be comparing hands to rifles, or feet to rifles? Why not include asphyxiation or strangulation, aren't those pretty personal ways of killing someone? Pushed is also included as Personal Weapon.
Second, why ignore the other categories? Why is Breitbart ignoring the elephant in the room; handguns? I have my suspicions on why but its a question other people will ask if they actually look at the numbers instead of just Breitbart's cherry picked details.
Third, it ignores the unknown firearms category which exists because a bullet may have been the cause of death but the authorities couldn't ascertain what type of gun fired it. It's entirely possible the rifles number is considerably higher but a through and through bullet wound didn't get recorded as a rifle.

Just want to point this out and provide some extra context so you don't make this argument elsewhere and then get blindsided by the more than 10,000 murders committed with handguns. This goes right along with trying to remind gun owners to be careful of the quotes from the Founders that they use in online arguments. Just because a Patrick Henry quote sounds like it supports your point, doesn't mean that it does.
 
TimRB said:
It sounds so simple, doesn't it? Someone points out an OBVIOUS fact, and the gun-grabbers say "Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I guess I was wrong all along." In a reasonable world it would work that way. My experience has been different (or at least my observation). Gun-grabbers seem to fall into one (sometimes both) of two groups:

1) Those who don't have any critical thinking skills whatsoever, and

2) Those who hate guns and gun owners and will do anything they can think of to oppose them.

The number 2 gun-haters have no problem at all violating the Constitution or established case law. They know that even an obviously unconstitutional law will take years to get through the court system and when that law fails, they'll simply try something else. They NEVER recognize that the laws are ineffective and move to repeal them. The solution is always to add more.

Edit: Old Dog, please don't think I'm being critical of your comments. I am sure we agree 100 percent on all gun issues.

Tim
Click to expand...
Well, Tim, I don't completely disagree with some of your comments, however, I wasn't exactly speaking to the "gun-grabbers." I've been a casual student of the gun control movement since I became a gun-owner (which actually was in the late '60s) and have gone a round or two with the opposition, in the media, on the campus and even in a courtroom.

Some may find this difficult to believe, but there are actually some moderate observers and folks on the fence out there. These are our audience, not our avowed opponents.
 
Insignificant bill said:
We know that none of it matters.
Click to expand...

Hardly

This is now appearing in multiple social media and news sources and far more people are now asking if hands/feet, or blunt objects, or blades each are used in murders than any and ALL long guns ("assault weapons" being a subset of) then what have the news and Antis been on about. Sewing doubt about the claims against firearms is always important.

Encouraging us to quit before trying because "none of it matters" is volunteering to loose.
 
I am not advocating quitting the fight for our rights. My point is that it doesn't matter to our government. They want us helpless so we do what they tell us to.
 
Since feet and fists are now the top weapons used, then how did that happen?

Violent demonstrations, and a lot of those are in areas known for a distinct lack of conservative voters. Portland? Seattle? etc etc.

That means it's not conservatives who have caused the rates of violence to go up.

It's liberals. And they are now undermining their own anti gun agenda.

Everyone that's woke turns to HIT, just like the man said.
 
That has been so since the first humans resided on our planet. Think of the first incident of genocide. If the Old Testament is right, when Cain killed Abel he exterminated 25% of the world’s population using his body parts because weapons were not conceived at the dawn of mankind. A liberal solution: amputate hands an deer of everyone, oh yeah, almost forgot also pull teeth because it is possible to kill by biting. If. Looks could kill we would have to blind everyone. By the way if I stab someone with a fork it is an assault fork. Ban forks. Ok, no more scotch for me tonight.
 
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