Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

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the generic cop bashing will likely get the thread closed.
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Nobodys 'bashing' anybody...

I must have missed the judicial reforms that eliminated the possibility of wrongful prosecution. When did this happen?
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Very well said...
I am NOT impressed with those of you who can quote statutes. You should be quoting the Founding Fathers, but you can't. (or won't) Why, I'll never know.
The ATF can be proven to be one the worst infringements upon the 2nd Amendment in history, along with NFA 34 and GCA 68.
 
Mike, I posted that to show that the ATF is using the data to create statistics. Congress specifically prohibited them from doing that in the Tiahrt Amendment because the data is unreliable and can't be used by law for that purpose. Reread my first post in this thread, as I made that pretty clear.

In short, the 90% cited by the ATF is unfounded, and derived from information Congress has stated is so bad it can't be used for anything legally.

Hardly a very good source to cite. Mebbe try again?

-SS
 
Over 90 percent of the crime guns used in Mexico originates from sources in the U.S.
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Yes, that number is true. You left out the part where most of them were sold to the government of Mexico by the government of the United States.
 
You also left out the part where it's 90% of the weapons sent to the US for tracing by American authorities.

They select weapons they think come from the US. How? They usually have "made in USA" stamped on them. The mass majority have no markings of any sort, and are made in developing countries and in South America itself; all countries with strict gun control.

A small percentage of guns actually used in Mexico come from the US. As far as heavy weaponry, ask the Mexican government for serial numbers. They won't give you any because everyone will know that those weapons used to belong to the Mexican army... sold to them by way of the US government, supposedly to help them fight exactly what is happening right now.

It's kind of like saying 100% of the cars in the US come from Japanese-based companies, yet only sampling Toyotas in your study. Obviously your figure will reflect a high percentage.

The reason they specifically selected those weapons is because they think the US will at least have something to trace them by. There's no point sending unstamped weaponry since there are no serial numbers, no manufacturer stamp, nothing.
 
Over 90 percent of the crime guns used in Mexico originates from sources in the U.S.
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Of course that may also mean weapons legally purchased by the Mexican Government for military usw that get 'diverted" to the cartels by corrupt mexican cops
 
uhhhh...

The mission is especially challenging because, officials say, that while Houston is the number one point of origin for weapons traced back to the United States from Mexico, the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.
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I think this is the point...

The administration has already expressed a desire for database expansion in this and other areas...
As long as it's a paper trail...it's tough work...
I think what they'd prefer is to sit in an office and look all this up on a computer...
It seems to me the incorrect statements get plenty of play while the actual numbers are seldom expressed as true stats...
It was stated several times that the US is supplying a high percentage of weapons but of the figures actually given, the numbers are much lower... rauch06.gif
 
waterhouse, that interpretation of FOPA was written by a renowned 2nd Amendment attorney, which is fully sourced at the link.
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I read the link. I did not see your interpretation there (i.e. "In other words, keep your damn hands . . ."

If what they were doing was actually against the law, they wouldn't gain much from doing it as they'd never get a conviction. The defense attorney would poke right through it. "So, you illegally obtained this data by looking at a 4473 that was kept at a dealer's place of business? I'd like the case dismissed."

That isn't how things go in these cases, so I'm pretty sure it is legal for the ATF to go to a dealer and inspect the 4473s and note information when they believe a crime has been committed.
 
Hey, I have an idea...

If we actually had a secure border that worked in both directions this would not be an issue...

(nah, what was I thinking?... :rolleyes:)
 
Did TJ really say that??
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Nah, it was to illustrate that people post quotes that ridiculous because they read them somewhere. (The other part of my sig admonishes to verify quotes before you post them :))
 
Quote:
And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

It's called sage advice on what to do, for anyone who gets one of these visits from the BATFE.

Do NOT talk to them without a lawyer present.
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I have no problem with that at all.

If it was me, and I knew I had nothing to hide, I'd invite the ATF boys inside, answer their questions, maybe give them a drink and tell them how much I enjoy all their products. :p
 
Mike, I posted that to show that the ATF is using the data to create statistics. Congress specifically prohibited them from doing that in the Tiahrt Amendment because the data is unreliable and can't be used by law for that purpose. Reread my first post in this thread, as I made that pretty clear.

In short, the 90% cited by the ATF is unfounded, and derived from information Congress has stated is so bad it can't be used for anything legally.

Hardly a very good source to cite. Mebbe try again?

-SS
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Yeah, I know but you did post it...

Just yanking yer shorts a bit. :neener:




To me the entire argument is just frustrating. Here we are in the age of information and we as a society can't get it together to the point where law enforcement could use existing technology to find out who's doing something they shouldn't be doing and that would protect and preserve the rights of the law-abiding.

We have a very long way to go to get there.
 
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