Felony stop leaves family traumatized

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Yeah..Close the DOOR! Ever heard of not escalating a situation or not compounding a problem? Especially after being given a CLUE as to a potential problem?

What are they hiding? Who cares? We'll search later! The couple was surrounded and restrained and weren't going anywhere. So we can't RE-OPEN a door later to search?

It should have been a no-brainer move to keep the animals contained. But we don't need brains...we have procedures.

Animals in the car? That's what Animal Control is for.

I agree with the above statement that this was typical "You're not gonna tell me what to do" attitude.
 
I have to put in the obligatory"I wasn't there but"statement.
It would seem that with all those cops,cars and lights,all focused
on the family wagon,that someone might have noticed that there
were a couple of dogs in there! I think I would have noticed a
couple of bulldogs/pitbulls,the assault weapons of the dog world,
and closed the doors right quick!
I've driven through the east/southeast and always feared
some kind of incident like this,especially with Calif. plates!


Quickdraw
 
Having worked with dogs before, this thing was realy bungled. If the cops were engaged in a felony stop and were cuffing potential suspects in order to minimize any threat to themselves, why didn't they do what was necessary, i.e. closing the car door, in order to minimize any potential threat from a large dog? If you're "containing" people in order to protect yourself, doesn't "containing" the dogs make sense too? At least until you get animal control or a handler to the scene to take care of things properly? I mean, if the stop were legit, would you just enter a strange car with strange dogs in it in order to perform the search? No way! Give me something like a car door at least between me and a dog I don't know.

Without the issue of whether the felony stop was correct or not, the cops on the scene should have contained the dogs until they could have been properly removed from the vehicle if a search were necessary.
 
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This situation disgusts me to no end. couldn't those boneheads see that there were dogs in the car to begin with and that closing the car doors was a good idea. Funny how a phone call and someones interpretation of an incident can cause the law to draw down on ya and shoot your dog. I hope those miltant officers loose their damn pension and all over this one. We are supposed to have RIGHTS in this country.
 
These stories are getting more and more frequent. What on earth are they teaching Police Officers these days? This "I won't be told what to do" attitude has to stop. This officer should be fired. It's clear if he truly cared about his own protection he would have made sure the door was closed and let animal control deal with the dogs. Doesn't matter if it's a felony stop, cops are paid and trained to handle themselves properly when confronted with stress. Nobody's perfect but such a boneheaded decision shouldn't be overlooked. In the past, I always took the side of Law Enforcement in these situations. The way I see it, a cop needs to control the scene to keep things from escalating. As a civilian that might require me to relinquish my freedom for a short period of time while things short themselves out. Most times that a small price to pay. I always treat law enforcement officers with respect, the badge requires me to do so. More and more though, I find the police are more concerned with control than common sense or decency, which slowly makes me respect the people behind the badge less and less.
 
El Tejon,

In regards to the following statement from your earlier post:

Baba Louie, I don't think the problem is in killing the dog. It's just a dog, albeit someone's property.

With all due respect a dog is not "just a dog" to some of us. I lost a black lab in June who was 15 years old and was our child. I am sure that many more would wholeheartedly disagree with your statement that a dog is just a piece of property. To some of us they are family.
 
Once the dog was advancing toward the officer, "barking and jumping at the flashlight" (per the story of the woman who owned the dog), the only good choice the officer had was to put the dog down.

Yeah, it sucks. Life does, sometimes.

Now, that said. Could one of the LEOs onboard explain why the police may not have wanted to shut the door? Was it 'just ego,' or was there some legit reason not to do so? Not knowing a lot about police procedure, I'm left wondering.

pax

Not only is life a bitch, but it is always having puppies. --Adrienne Gusoff
 
ggarf, don't get me wrong, I like doggies too. But they are not human beings, they are animals. As such, killing the dog is treated differently under the criminal code, even in a Southern state.

Thus, if the mall ninja is prosecuted for killing the dog, he will not be prosecuted for murder or manslaughter of the dog, but theft or crim. conversion (maybe criminal recklessness depending on how far from the family maybe).

The problem is that the officer should not have been in the position to pull the family over.:(
 
First, <<the family's two pet bulldogs>> they were Bulldogs, not Pit Bull Terriers. Huge difference.

Second, I was also stopped ... actually, I was already stopped, so make it searched based on an anonymous phone call of shots fired. There had been no shots fired, it was a prank call, but I met the description. So they put me through the wringer and nothing had happened. So in the middle of nowhere, at 10 PM freezing cold, I let them search my truck because there wasn't anything illegal to find. So my comment is: Felony stops on citizen phone calls are okay IF the citizen no **** saw something and the call is not anonymous, but this citizen just found a wallet and some money ... she didn't see anything in the way of a felony. But LE took her imagination and ran with it. Who here thinks that level of scrutiny is professional? PPP
 
Up until the Officer shot the dog I think proper procedures were followed reference the Felony stop. By no accounts from anyone present were the Troopers anything other than professional in their handling of the family during the stop. I would have used almost identical procedures up to the time the last family member was removed, then, as per request of the family and because I would have had to be blind not to see the dogs, I would have simply closed the door. End of story. No harm no foul. The mistake sorted out, family on their way with both dogs and a respect for the professionalism of the police.
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BS !!!!!! (I would spell that out but it is a "family" forum)

Since when does losing your wallet call for a "felony stop" ????

This should have been a "hey, buddy - you lost your wallet" stop. What evidence did anyone have that a felony was committed?

These idiots should be permanently retired from LE (with allowance for the ones who were called in not knowing the original issue).

Not only should the family get a new puppy, they should also get a new car, a new house, and all the kids' way paid thru graduate school.
 
The problem I have w/ this whole stop is the assumtion that the family are dangerous felons. Even if the police thought they might be suspects, whats wrong w/ letting them sit in the car until they got more info? And didn't they notice the dog when they removed the passengers? I agree that the main problem is that so much was assumed from a citizen's (assuming they are a citizen) complaint. I guess if I'm mad at my boss or something I can make a phone call and get a plunger shoved up his a**. Why did this have to be so rushed. I've been pulled over under suspicion of possesion and I sat in my own car for a good half hour before anyone said anything besides "keep your hands in view and sit tight". As far as shooting the dog goes, that was understandable once the situation got to that point, but could have easily been avoided.
 
TallPine,

Not meaning to flame, but why should the local jurisdiction pay for anything more than a puppy? House, Car, college education?

Traumatic experience? Mental anguish?

Isn't this just what continues to force/cause the lawyer's into a "feeding frenzy"?

Lose their jobs? Investigation, certainly. Communications breakdown? Fix It right now (if thats a possibility).

Who's to say that those who would replace those "Retired" officers would be better?

Having said that (or asked rhetorical type questions), I'm certain that the attorneys are lining up for the families interviews to see who'll get them the most money when this goes to Civil trial.

I guess you're not the type to say a public apology and a new puppy (throw in food for a year or two and vet bills as well) would suffice, eh?

Maybe it wouldn't.

It's still sad. And tragic. And preventable.

I hope every LEO in this country is made aware of this situation and has some competant people reviewing their own in-house procedures, but with a WAR ON DRUGS and a WAR ON TERROR (just how do you wage war against a philosophy?) and a WAR against any American who owns Guns in IL, MD, NJ, CA, etc. there isn't much spare time left over to review simple communications skills I gather.

Adios
 
Traumatic experience? Mental anguish?
Click to expand...

IMHO this would count as a legitimate reason to sue for mental anguish. These are not people that ate themselves to death and blamed McDonalds for their lack of willpower, or fell victim to the evil tobacco companies. There only "crime" was losing a wallet. Problem is the legitimate legal claims are lumped in with the goofball that sued because the haunted house she went to on her own free will was "too scary."
 
It was a FELONY STOP people. Tension level up a notch or two?
Cops at scene doing what they had to do.
Close the door? FELONY Stop. Dogs inside? Felony Stop.
Adrenaline pumping. Felony Stop.
Pit Bull. Not a tea-cup Chihuahua.
Click to expand...

Excuse me for a second. You're not a felon until you've been proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

By your attitude cops can do whatever they want because of who they 'might' be arresting.
 
Has anyone read whether the dogs were actually pit bulls, American Bulldogs or English Bulldogs?

Just seems like if it was English Bulldogs no one in their right mind could consider them a threat (unless it already had you in it's jaws). I mean jeez, you could lay on the ground and roll away faster than the dog could run.:D
 
Thus, if the mall ninja is prosecuted for killing the dog, he will not be prosecuted for murder or manslaughter of the dog, but theft or crim. conversion (maybe criminal recklessness depending on how far from the family maybe).
Click to expand...

Ummm. Yeah, but what if I kill a police dog? How would that be prosecuted?

How is my dog worth less than a police dog?
 
I have been following this thread all morning, and have repeatadly thought of posting this, but haven't. That being said, I am making an infrence from some of the language in the poor family's statements and certainly don't want to inflame anyone. Additionally, I fully realize that I may be mistaken with what I am about to say. All that aside, I cannot help but wonder if this isn't a DWB situation. In the past when I have heard/read of situations such as this it has almost always been a African-American person behind the wheel. I understand the "logic" behind racial profiling, but it still has MAJOR flaws, and I can't help but think that this is one of them.Methinks that there were certain prejudices in motion even before the stop. (And this is no slam against TN, it happens everywhere.)

GinSlinger
 
I guess you're not the type to say a public apology and a new puppy (throw in food for a year or two and vet bills as well) would suffice, eh?

Maybe it wouldn't.
Click to expand...

No, not hardly.

It's not really about the dog.

Compare it to rape - would it be reasonable to say: "so she got her dress tore and humiliated a little ... what's the big deal? By her a new dress and send her flowers every week for a year."

Maybe LE should have some probable cause before they do "felony stops" and go breaking into people's houses looking for drugs, etc.
 
I may be wrong on this, but if you kill a police dog, don't they prosecute you as if you killed a police officer?

I've been stopped before with my dog, 110lb Cane Corso, and told the officer that it was not a good idea to conduct our business with the dog and myself in the car. After seeing the size and surly disposition that my dog has towards strangers he agreed.

It seems as though with the amount of K-9 units out there that the officers would take into consideration what a threat any dog could be, I still find it astonishing to consider a Bull Dog threat enough to blow it's head off, a little pepper spray goes a long way against most canines unless they are worked into a complete frenzy.

To not heed the warnings and pleas of the family to shut the door because of the dogs is extremely negligent. What if the dogs got out and ran into the road and were killed? What if the officers had stopped a vehicle with a large dog capable of inflicting severe damage? Chances are a shotgun wouldn't have had a chance to be employed before an officer was attacked. Cops need to realize a dog can be more dangerous than a human, dogs don't fear firearms or understand their orders to submit to their authority, they need to be treated as a loaded weapon, if it takes shutting the car door to lock that weapon up, DO IT!!!

I feel extremely sorry for the family who lost what was undoubtedly a member of their family. The officers involved in this tragedy should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I'd make this case bigger than the Rodney King beating if it were up to me.


Check out www.canecorso.org
 
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Another proud day for law enforcement. They feel they were following procedures, but things went wrong. It is more than "just" blasting the family pet. It really doesn't matter if it was a teddy bear. The issue is lack of respect for the sum total of that family. The police were given total control of the situation and death is the result. Nobody resisted, no crime committed. There can come a point in time when every police encounter is hostile from both sides. Alot of bad encounters have been flagged on these forums. Is this now to be accepted? :confused:
 
My dad was a VA State Trooper, but I can't this tune out of my head..."Come and listen to a story 'bout a man named Jed..." These guys get paid to do a job, right? Or do they get paid to do the job right.

Did they check the car's interior prior to, during and after removing their suspects? Did they see the dog then? Did they leave the door, or doors, open. Who's zooming who here?

John
 
So who's really at fault?

The city LEO who shot the dog? Nope, he was just following procedure wrt dangerous waddling canines ...

The LEO who left the door open? Nope, they were called to conduct a felony stop and that's what they did in following procedures to the letter, can't take any chances with hardened criminals, closing the door was obviously a ploy of some type ...

The dispatcher? She didn't leave the door open for the dogs to get loose and she certainly didn't pull the trigger. If she left anything out of her radio calls it was just procedure, gotta keep things short, can't confuse the officer in the field with too much info ...

The LEO who took the call from the concerned citizen? He was just following up on a potentially dangerous felony. After all, the citizen had found a wallet and LE is duty bound to follow up to determine what happened to the guy who owns the wallet. No one can accuse the THP of not following up on potential front page news. Felony? It's got to be a felony complete with felons, else why bother ...

The citizen who found the wallet? Nope, can't blame her because that would create a situation in which citizens simply minded their own business, didn't jump to conclusions and didn't call police for the most innocuous reason.

The guy who left the wallet on his car? Yep, this is where the entire episode began and it's only right that we circle back to put the blame where it rightfully belongs. :rolleyes:
------------------------------------------------------------
Can you tell I'm still simmering from my own detention due to an anonymous tip? The first thing LE should do with tips is consider the source -- Anonymous has no credibility. First determine if anything really happened before detaining someone who may (not) have done it. Citizen tips like the one in this debacle need to be investigated to determine what really-exactly-no **** happened. There shouldn't be a felony stop without a felony.

Approach the car to see who's inside, have four cruisers as intimidating back-up just in case. The driver didn't have a wallet with ID, so ask the female sitting next to him. Hmmm, same last name as the recovered DL :lightbulb: Nice dogs, looks like a family going home from Tennessee. "Sir, you dropped your wallet, have a nice day."

I'm done for now. Standing by -- please keep us informed.
 
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