Felt Recoil: M1 Carbine -vs- AR-15

[nero45acp]

How does the recoil of a 16" or 20" AR-15 (.223) compare with a M1 Carbine?

Also, any opinions on a muzzle-brake on a AR-15? Pro/Con?




nero45acp

 

[Badger Arms]

The M1 Carbine has a different recoil impulse. Being lighter, recoil seems a bit sharper and more energetic, but I don't think that the difference is worth writing home about. The carbine's muzzle rises more. A recoil check is really not necessary on either guns as they are light enough to get back on target quickly. Recoil checks increase the blast and noise enough that new shooters will complain and hearing protection is absolutely mandatory. It makes a 20" barrel sound like a 14" barrel.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, recoil is a very subjective thing but I find the M1 Carbine to be like a .22 in recoil - nothing to even notice besides the bang.

We had one out with an AR15 while teaching a bunch of young boys to shoot, they all felt the M1 Carbine had less recoil.

 

[JNewell]

I agree with the prior post. Both have got a lot of clatter that goes with relatively light reciprocating parts and they are somewhat different due to things like stock design, but I'd say the M1 carbine doesn't really have recoil, whereas the AR does have recoil, though it's light and gentle.

Why do you ask -- what's the goal?

 

[Houndawg]

I can't speak for the carbine, but the AR15's recoil is nothing at all. My 5 year old could probably fire an AR15 without complaining (if he could reach the trigger).

 

[Tony Williams]

In identical guns, the .30 Carbine cartridge will generate about 80% of the recoil impulse of the 5.56mm. OTOH the Carbine is generally lighter than the M16, which means that felt gun recoil will be more or less the same.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum

 

[FPrice]

I have both and they both are easy on these old shoulders. The AR-15 probably has a little more felt recoil but not enough to matter.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Heckuva good question & darn if I know. Both seem light to me.

The distinction is in the sound. The carbine sounds like a gun with all its parts moving back & forth and the AR sounds like a pogo stick.

 

[Sunray]

"...they all felt the M1 Carbine had less recoil..." Different shape to the stock. The carbine comes back and goes up slightly due to the way it is held and the design of the stock. The AR comes straight back for the same reason.
Either are dandy for teaching new shooters. Mind you, I've taught new shooters with a C1A1(Cdn. made FN) with no trouble. If you don't hold an FN properly or have the wrong size butt, you get bopped on the cheek bone by the stock hump. Then again, I was shooting my carbine one time and must have crawled the stock. Got smacked on the snout by my thumb.

 

[nero45acp]

Thanx for the replies/info.

Any opinions on putting a muzzle-break/recoil-check on a AR?




nero45acp

 

[Correia]

It depends on what you are going to do with it. For just general plinking and range use, a muzzle brake is not really neccesary, but makes the gun much loader for everybody near you. (and downright unpleasant if you are the range officer surrounded by muzzle braked rifles all day long!) Now if you are shooting something like 3gun competition then a muzzle brake really helps because you are shooting the same target multiple times, and 1/10th a second really makes a difference.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Any opinions on putting a muzzle-break/recoil-check on a AR?

Depends... I notice a lot of what people refer to as "recoil" really includes muzzle blast and noise that isn't related to the amount of force pushing against them at all.

I've seen people dislike one AR for "recoil" because of a muzzle brake when I know that the AR in question actually has less recoil but is just directing the blast back toward the shooter.

If you are teaching new or novice shooters a muzzle brake might enhance discomfort rather than reduce it, if not then there are many muzzle brakes for the AR that are effective, though there isn't a lot of recoil in the AR to begin with.

 

[JNewell]

Muzzle brakes are a nice topic to start a vigorous debate over.

My opinion and experience is to stay the heck away from the AK-style brakes. They are not so noticeable to the shooter, but anyone nearby, especially if the range is covered or (worse) indoors will be flinching from the redirected blast. This doesn't happen with the bare muzzle postbans or the USGI flash suppressor on prebans. I don't have any experience with the brake that looks like the USGI f/s.

 

[Pinned&Recessed]

I own examples of each and I think that while the recoil velocity of both rifles is similar, the AR has a quicker, more sharp recoil, while the M1 Carbine's recoil is more of a gentle push.

Just my observations of course.

If anyone cares:

My carbine has the standard 18.75" crowned barrel and we were shooting USGI-spec 110gr. ball.
The 3 ARs we shot had:
One had a 20" crowned muzzle post-ban HBAR. Less felt recoil as it weighed 3-4 pounds more (Loaded) than the (Loaded) Carbine.
Two were pre-ban. One with a 16" HBAR and A1 FS. Felt kinda similar to the carbine.
The other Pre-Ban had a 20" Pencil-Barrel with a 3-Prong FS. It and the carbine were dead-ringers in recoil due to the fact that they both weighed almost the same 5.5 lbs for the Carbine versus 6 lbs for the AR. All ARs were shot using M193-spec 55gr. Winchester Q3131A ball.

Oh, I coated the spring and buffer in my ARs with Hi-Temp Lithium Wheel-Bearing Grease and they no longer sound like pogo sticks and go BOOOOOIIIINNNGGGG!!!!!!!

 

[Onslaught]

Here's my experience (for what it's worth).

I've owned a pre-ban 14.5" AR, a post-ban 20" AR with gas check, and an IMI M1 Carbine.

My son (who was 9 at the time) did not like the 14.5" AR because he said it "kicked too much". It was light, and had the little CAR stock on it which has less surface area and is fairly uncomfortable anyway. He LOVED the M1 carbine, and I too felt that it had no recoil, and a moderate muzzle rise. The 20" AR was his favorite by far (until I got the Storm ) because he said it had "no kick at all" and because of the brake, it also had no muzzle rise.

BUT, for me, standing next to him while firing that 20", it hurt like because of the blast. You felt it, not just heard it.

Of the three, I'd say with FELT recoil, the 14.5" (and 16") AR's have the most "felt" recoil, M1 carbine next, and the heavier, longer barrelled 20" AR has the least. Probably does have a lot to do with barrel length and muzzle blast directed at the shooter though.