Filler in your cylinders

[soonerfan66]

Do you use a filler when shooting revolvers ? I usually don't when shooting my Navys or Armys but do sometimes with my Walker and Dragoon . I don't see a whole lot of differance in my accuracy with or without . But my accuracy can vary from day to day ! Somedays I see my sights better or if I have been working hard and then decide to go shoot some my accuracy is not the best to . May just not found that sweet load .

 

[skeeterfogger]

I too have experimented with filler. Loaded 8 cylinders. 4 with, 4 without. Changed cylinders blindly. Never noticed any difference.

 

[rodwha]

I decided to use lead as filler. Having found the more accurate but powerful enough (25 grns of energetic powder with a bullet should get you into the low 300 ft/lb range or .44 Spl performance) powder charge in both revolvers, the accuracy didn’t change no matter what projectile I used. Seeing that I figure I’d just fill in most of the excess with more lead since I hunt and mass = penetration. But I also figured it might help tighten up those groups since so many swear by using filler.

I tried fillers initially but it just added to the tedium. Can’t say I noticed a difference either though.

 

[Mn Fats]

I tried fillers initially but it just added to the tedium. Can’t say I noticed a difference either though.

Tried cornmeal. Tried wads. I can't tell the difference in accuracy. Just another extra step imo. I just load the grain my particular revolver likes, ram the ball, and 50/50 beeswax to Crisco over the top. All Crisco in the winter.

Messy, but easy cleaning. No accuracy change.

 

[soonerfan66]

Mn Fats me to love my 50/50 beeswax/Crisco . I got a few hives and make my own lube with the extra wax for all my pistol and rifles , plus the honey ain't bad either !

 

[DocRock]

Yes. I use paper cartridges and load everything to the same depth so that when rammed home, the ball compacts the cartridge and sits just below the cylinder face. If I recall correctly, that's an all 3F powder load of about 32 grs? For CAS, they are 21 grs 3F and the rest in cornmeal.

 

[whughett]

Only in black powder cartridges, such as gallery powder charges that don’t meet the “no airspace” rule in bullet seating.
Loose powder in chambers same rule, but as I don’t load less than 30 grains In 44 or 22 in 36 I don’t bother. Bullseye shooters do as it relates to bullet distance to forcing come.

 

[PapaG]

I used cornmeal in my ROA in match shooting as 20 grains of fffg hardly filled the cylinder and 20 was the most accurate load. Covered the ball with a grease that was popular at Friendship at the time but can't recall the name.

 

[PapaG]

Once I found the Lee mould for a bullet, 220 grain, I quit using round balls except where required by the rules.

 

[rodwha]

Once I found the Lee mould for a bullet, 220 grain, I quit using round balls except where required by the rules.

Why did you end up preferring the Lee bullet?

 

[SlowFuse]

Most guys I've seen shooting for score use light accuracy loads with filler and grease over ball. If they're doing it there seems to be a reason, rules don't require filler as far as I can tell. It does however require the grease on top.

Cylinder jump is always the assumed reason, along with some models possibly having tapered cylinders that squeeze the ball smaller the further you go down.

I haven't compared with and without filler with all other things being equal. My most accurate c&b 44 likes 18 to 20 grains of 3F with a .460 ball, from what I can tell without filler that would leave a gap between ball and powder without modifying the ram. I'd just rather not try it. 20-ish grains of c.o.w on top puts the ball about 1/3 inch from the cylinder face. Just enough room for a lube disc.

 

[PapaG]

Why did you end up preferring the Lee bullet?

Easier to use, lube grooves, no filler, accurate though not quite up to r.b. level.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Like Papa G, I shot at Friendship at the NMLRA National Matches, where two or three handguns are required to compete in the 1000 pt National Muzzle Loading Pistol Championship. There's three aggregates, one for caplock pistol, one for flintlock pistol and one for "open" C & B revolver. "Open" means anything is permitted on the revolver, except optics, and includes both "As Issued" CW & Ruger OA revolvers.

Serious target competitors are shooting one-handed at bullseye targets at 25 yards and 50 yards, with a competitor on either side of you, three feet apart. The firing line stretches about 35 yards from one end to the other, and you're somewhere in there, firing 10 shots at a target within the 30 minute relay at the same time as dozens and dozens of pistoleros, starting with an empty revolver.

When you listen to the fellers, like Mike Yazel, Lynne Shoffner, or Charlie Haffner Sr & Jr, who have won the national championship numerous times, you take to heart their load recommendations. For the Ruger Old Army, accurate loads for getting tight groups at 50 yards, seldom went beyond 25 grains of GOEX or Swiss 3FG black powder. Most of us settled on 18 to 20 grains of 3FG, since we are only penetrating a piece of cardboard at 50 yards.

With the 18 to 20 grain loads, the filler, be it cornmeal, cream of wheat, or anything else, the objective was (and is) to compress the powder charge and put the .457 RB just below the cylinder chamber face. Then, axle grease or "Bore Butter" was smeared on top to keep the fouling soft (not to reduce chain-fires). A competitor could expect to shoot fifty to seventy-five rounds a day, so the reduced charges helps to relieve the fatigue on the shooting hand and arm.

If you're not geared to shooting in this type of venue, at national, territorial, state, or local NMLRA Line Matches, then a filler will only attract pistol shooters who want to pursue tight groups at a minimum of 25 yards, keeping them in the center.

My "Open" Revolvers, Ruger Old Army "Dragoon" Model, .44 caliber on the left, and the Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber on the right, custom-made by the late Tom Ball, well-known N-SSA gunsmith. Both revolvers have Herrett grips, Bo-Mar front & rear sights. Fifty thousand rounds fired between them between 1987 and today.

 

[Armored farmer]

I have made a couple of day trips to friendship, but never competed there.
I have competed in a few nmlra territorials.
...but not since I bought my target model pietta '58 down in pall Mall, Tennessee at the Alvin York shoot off of a fellow shooter who offered it for sale.
I'm hoping it will be my ROA killer in future open pistol aggregates.

When I get serious about groups, I top my charge with c.o.w. (7cc) to bring the ball to the chamber mouth.

 

[PapaG]

Like Papa G, I shot at Friendship at the NMLRA National Matches, where two or three handguns are required to compete in the 1000 pt National Muzzle Loading Pistol Championship. There's three aggregates, one for caplock pistol, one for flintlock pistol and one for "open" C & B revolver. "Open" means anything is permitted on the revolver, except optics, and includes both "As Issued" CW & Ruger OA revolvers.

Serious target competitors are shooting one-handed at bullseye targets at 25 yards and 50 yards, with a competitor on either side of you, three feet apart. The firing line stretches about 35 yards from one end to the other, and you're somewhere in there, firing 10 shots at a target within the 30 minute relay at the same time as dozens and dozens of pistoleros, starting with an empty revolver.

When you listen to the fellers, like Mike Yazel, Lynne Shoffner, or Charlie Haffner Sr & Jr, who have won the national championship numerous times, you take to heart their load recommendations. For the Ruger Old Army, accurate loads for getting tight groups at 50 yards, seldom went beyond 25 grains of GOEX or Swiss 3FG black powder. Most of us settled on 18 to 20 grains of 3FG, since we are only penetrating a piece of cardboard at 50 yards.

With the 18 to 20 grain loads, the filler, be it cornmeal, cream of wheat, or anything else, the objective was (and is) to compress the powder charge and put the .457 RB just below the cylinder chamber face. Then, axle grease or "Bore Butter" was smeared on top to keep the fouling soft (not to reduce chain-fires). A competitor could expect to shoot fifty to seventy-five rounds a day, so the reduced charges helps to relieve the fatigue on the shooting hand and arm.

If you're not geared to shooting in this type of venue, at national, territorial, state, or local NMLRA Line Matches, then a filler will only attract pistol shooters who want to pursue tight groups at a minimum of 25 yards, keeping them in the center.

My "Open" Revolvers, Ruger Old Army "Dragoon" Model, .44 caliber on the left, and the Ruger "Old Navy" .36 caliber on the right, custom-made by the late Tom Ball, well-known N-SSA gunsmith. Both revolvers have Herrett grips, Bo-Mar front & rear sights. Fifty thousand rounds fired between them between 1987 and today.

View attachment 934731 View attachment 934734

Hey, Buck, how did the two Senecas work out for your youth shooters. Stan

 

[kell]

I use powder, cream of wheat (or cornmeal) crisco, ball. In that order. The meal keeps the grease out of the powder, and with the grease behind the ball it's not messy. (Not as messy).

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

Hey, Buck, how did the two Senecas work out for your youth shooters. Stan

Thanks to you, both are in the hands of youngsters under 13 years. One, 10 years old, shot a 96-2X/100 Aggregate score in the NMLRA/NC Territorial Matches in 2019, placing himself 2nd in the nation in the Sub-Junior Aggregate. Michael was one "happy camper" with your T/C Seneca.

 

[PapaG]

I shot the ROA, a flintlock I made and a Tingle for the aggregates. Sadly, I never won at a level higher than regionals. Musket and percussion offhand, much better. No records still stand however.
Several wins in trap.

 

[D. Buck Stopshere]

My best year at Friendship was 1993. I won the National Caplock Pistol (Single-Shot) Aggregate in Expert Class with my Yazel .36 caliber percussion pistol, 290-12X /300 possible. The crowning glory was 93-2X @ 50 yd SF. The national record for 50 yd SF was 94-4X. I was in Hog Heaven that year!