misskitty2
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can u use fillers in smokeless powder for 45 colt (reloading ) conversion
fillers
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arcticap
Member
There's some good advice in this thread against using fillers with .45 Colt. --->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/filler-needed-in-45-colt.289169/
This thread mentions more reasons against using fillers in general, especially without expert advice.--->>> https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/to-fill-or-not-to-fill-a-case-enigma.13718/
This thread mentions more reasons against using fillers in general, especially without expert advice.--->>> https://www.shootersforum.com/threads/to-fill-or-not-to-fill-a-case-enigma.13718/
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.308 Norma
Member
I agree, but I'm curious - where does a handloader find .45 Colt reloading data for smokeless powder in a black powder conversion cylinder? Is it the same data (not talking "Ruger Only" loads of course) as any other smokeless powder .45 Colt data?
At any rate, to answer the OP's question - I once tried using wisps of Dacron pillow stuffing to keep small charges of smokeless powder back against the primer in light .45 Colt loads. I didn't like it very much - it was a pain, I thought it smoked a lot, and I never was able to verify whether or not it improved a darned thing. I was glad when the powder companies started coming out with bulkier powders to please the cowboy action folks.
44 Dave
Member
You don't compress smokeless powder. A ":fluffy" powder like Trail Boss lights off and burns clean in small charges.
whughett
Member
My Lyman lists most 45C bullet selections with loading for Trail Boss Powder. It’s, TrailBoss, all I use for the conversion cylinders for all my 44’s. Bullets in 200,230 and 255 grain weights.
.308 Norma
Member
That's why I like it in the .45 Colt.
That's not always true. Over the years, I've used a few compressed charges of smokeless powder in some cartridges. A lot of reloading manuals list 100%+ charges of some types of smokeless powder in some cartridges.
I agree, but I'm curious - where does a handloader find .45 Colt reloading data for smokeless powder in a black powder conversion cylinder? Is it the same data (not talking "Ruger Only" loads of course) as any other smokeless powder .45 Colt data?
At any rate, to answer the OP's question - I once tried using wisps of Dacron pillow stuffing to keep small charges of smokeless powder back against the primer in light .45 Colt loads. I didn't like it very much - it was a pain, I thought it smoked a lot, and I never was able to verify whether or not it improved a darned thing. I was glad when the powder companies started coming out with bulkier powders to please the cowboy action folks.
This is where I got my information about light 45 colt smokeless loads.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012856166?pid=562678
AntiqueSledMan
Member
Hello misskitty2,
I do use Biodegradable Packaging Peanuts as a filler in my 45 Colt loads with Black MZ.
I have both Kirst and Howell Conversion Cylinders and no where does it say to use only "Black Powder".
Kirst states, "USE ONLY Black Powder or equivalent loads"
Howell states, "Cowboy ammunition is loaded with lead bullets and either smokeless powder,
black powder or black powder substitutes in a brass case.
We do not recommend using ammo with a muzzle velocity over 850 fps/12,000psi."
AntiqueSledMan.
I do use Biodegradable Packaging Peanuts as a filler in my 45 Colt loads with Black MZ.
I have both Kirst and Howell Conversion Cylinders and no where does it say to use only "Black Powder".
Kirst states, "USE ONLY Black Powder or equivalent loads"
Howell states, "Cowboy ammunition is loaded with lead bullets and either smokeless powder,
black powder or black powder substitutes in a brass case.
We do not recommend using ammo with a muzzle velocity over 850 fps/12,000psi."
AntiqueSledMan.
misskitty2
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the only powder that I found was 700x im loading 5 grains ,it fills about 1/4 of the 45 case is that ok with or with filler ,this seems like the same question I earlier posted ,but im confused with the different answers. I have the kirst conversions for all my guns.Is there a rist of hurting the gun with or without filler
44 Dave
Member
Do not use filler with smokeless powder, you are asking for inconstant powder burns.
arcticap
Member
FWIW, it appears that your powder charge is "good to go" without filler.--->>> SEE POST #6 https://www.coltforum.com/threads/255-grain-rnfp-700x-question.87444/
How's the performance?
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AntiqueSledMan
Member
Hello misskitty2,
Personally I would not load a case with under 50% capacity, for fear of the powder not covering the primer.
You might want to try a Schofield of a 45 Cowboy case.
A friend of mine once loaded some light loaded 45 Colt for another,
they blew up the cylinder. He claimed it wasn't a double charge.
I believe he pulled the bullets on the rest to show his charge.
Theory was that less than 1/2 case, the powder ignited across the length of cartridge rather then just the diameter of cartridge, causing the cylinder to explode.
AntiqueSledMan.
Personally I would not load a case with under 50% capacity, for fear of the powder not covering the primer.
You might want to try a Schofield of a 45 Cowboy case.
A friend of mine once loaded some light loaded 45 Colt for another,
they blew up the cylinder. He claimed it wasn't a double charge.
I believe he pulled the bullets on the rest to show his charge.
Theory was that less than 1/2 case, the powder ignited across the length of cartridge rather then just the diameter of cartridge, causing the cylinder to explode.
AntiqueSledMan.
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whughett
Member
Surprised Mods haven’t moved this thread to its proper category.
Anyhow. OP. Check out the brass that some cowboy action shooters use for just the purpose of reduced loads. It’s essentially a 45ACP with a rim called a 45 Special. I bought 100 of them to be able to use a very pointy bullet that I couldn’t seat properly and stay within the reduced OAL of some if not all conversion cylinders.
Anyhow. OP. Check out the brass that some cowboy action shooters use for just the purpose of reduced loads. It’s essentially a 45ACP with a rim called a 45 Special. I bought 100 of them to be able to use a very pointy bullet that I couldn’t seat properly and stay within the reduced OAL of some if not all conversion cylinders.
Looking in my 2006 Hodgdons reloading manual Titegroup is what you're looking for. It was designed to go off the same every time. The position in the larger cases such as 357 magnum or 45 long Colt has no effect on velocity and performance. I used that powder for years in SASS shooting. Never had a misfire.
Sledman, you can pull all the bullets you want but it still doesn't prove if that one fired bullet didn't have a double charge.
With the Titegroup regular cases work just fine.
Sledman, you can pull all the bullets you want but it still doesn't prove if that one fired bullet didn't have a double charge.
With the Titegroup regular cases work just fine.
AntiqueSledMan
Member
Hello Paul,
I agree, but I know this loader and he is very particular.
If he said he didn't double charge it I believe him.
He did buy the guy a new cylinder, but I don't think he'll load for anyone else.
Regardless, I feel one is safer with a filler.
Keep the powder against the primer.
AntiqueSledMan.
I agree, but I know this loader and he is very particular.
If he said he didn't double charge it I believe him.
He did buy the guy a new cylinder, but I don't think he'll load for anyone else.
Regardless, I feel one is safer with a filler.
Keep the powder against the primer.
AntiqueSledMan.
There are some powders that handle small charge more space better than others maybe your friend was not using a recomended powder?
Just conjecture of course we will probably never know all the more reason to follow directions 100% for loading data worked up by the experts if they say use filler or wadding use it if not don't. Personally I think its more fun and easier just to use real BP or 777 sub if i want a little more oomph.
whughett
Member
45C case filled brim full of 3F and a 250 grain bullet seated has plenty of oomph. Just shy of 40 grains. That’s with Goex Swiss would be even more.
gtrgy888
Member
That’s a plus for black powder. It loads very intuitively and only has one cardinal sin: no airspaces allowed. Much more foolproof.
Blackpowderwarrior
Member
I reload with the holy black and often use trail boss, titegroup, hp38, red dot or clays in my 45 colt and 38 spc/colt reloads for conversion cylinders.
Y smokeless reloads are for my lazy days or when I want to shoot but may not have time to clean. That being said my smokeless loads feel nothing like my loads of black, and I feel pretty darn safe with a case full of 3f and a 253 grain big lube bullet from a mold I had tom down at accurate molds chef up for me
Y smokeless reloads are for my lazy days or when I want to shoot but may not have time to clean. That being said my smokeless loads feel nothing like my loads of black, and I feel pretty darn safe with a case full of 3f and a 253 grain big lube bullet from a mold I had tom down at accurate molds chef up for me
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misskitty2
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I talked to a tech at Hodgdon on Monday and he said don't use a filler when you reload 45 colt shells in my 1860 pietta bp with a conversion I feel better now, going right to the source.i was getting mixed messages on this site ,but that's ok ,to each his own, what works for one may not work for another,even with that I still love this forum,
misskitty2
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forgot to mention I've learn very much from this site, and still keep reading
arcticap
Member
I also learned from your question.
And now that you contacted Hodgdon, we all have the benefit of the info. that you obtained.
Thank you!
Driftwood Johnson
Member
Howdy
This is the information that came with my 45 Colt conversion cylinder that I use in an 1858 Remington Cap & Ball revolver:
I always make the stipulation that velocity alone does not dictate the pressure that a cartridge will develop, pressure is what blows up cylinders, not velocity, and pressure is dependent not only on velocity but bullet weight too.
Anyway, modern cartridge conversion cylinders are made from good quality arsenal grade steel, and can take the pressures generated by moderate 45 Colt Smokeless ammunition.
Fillers? No. Not with Smokeless powder. If you want less powder, try a case with less powder capacity, such as 45 Schofield or 45 Cowboy Special.
Left to right in this photo the cartridges are 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 Cowboy Special, 45 Auto Rim, and 45 ACP. The rim of 45 Schofield is a little bit larger in diameter than 45 Colt, but most revolvers that will chamber 45 Colt will also chamber 45 Schofield. 45 Cowboy Special has the same rim configuration as 45 Colt, and will chamber in any 45 Colt revolver. In addition, 45 Cowboy Special has the same internal case capacity as 45 ACP, so the same data for 45 ACP can be used for 45 Cowboy Special. I have never loaded any 45 Cowboy Special for my cartridge conversion cylinders, if I did I would use light data.
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