If the bullet guide is made in the US of A why would a imported part have to be removed? You are not adding points are you?
I asked a simple direct question about if adding a AK style magazines adds points. I did not ask for a link.
This question doesn't even make sense in the context of 922r for a number of reasons. Rather than go through them here I try to give the information that you actually are trying to ask about below.
A bullet guide is not a countable part. You take another poster to task for basically not hand feeding you info. Your questions show you know so little about the topic that it is easier to point you towards some resources than to try to explain it to you. Your response to someone trying to help you is rather rude and uncalled for. Normally I would just move on to another thread. However, even your questions are so far off that I worry they will lead other subsequent readers astray or make them think a rather simple subject is more complex than it is.
Perhaps I will be chastised for not relaying information in a manner you approve of. However, I'll give it a shot.
First let’s start with the very basics. USC 18 922r is federal law that prohibits a person from assembling from parts a gun that would be banned from importation. The law states:
(r) It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to—
(1) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or
(2) the assembly of any such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General.
The ATF has passed regulations that further define this. The relevant regulations are in defined further by Title 27 Part 478.39 of the Code of Federal Regulation. In short, they say that if a weapon has more than ten foreign parts from a list of specific parts then that violates 922(r). It is not just any part, like say a bullet guide. Rather only particular parts are “countable” parts. There are no points to speak of, only parts. There are 20 parts that can be counted. Not every weapon will have all 20 parts. The list of parts is as follows:
27 C.F.R. 478.89 lists 20 parts:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Butt stocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, hand guards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates
Your question "But since the bullet guide allows use of AK magazines is the use of the magazines is what is adding points?", is missing the whole issue. Rather what you should be asking is when do you have to worry about all of this 922r stuff. Stated another way, when does 922r apply. Taking the time to read the law would easily clarify this. The answer is when you assemble a rifle that would be banned from import. Again it has nothing to do with adding points, there are no points. However, when you start putting magazines that hold more than 10 rounds in an otherwise stock saiga, you are arguably assembling a gun from parts that would not be legal for import. There is some gray area about what assembling means but the ATF has, at least at one point, opined that inserting a mag is assembling. Given the fact that magazine parts are countable parts I actually find that to be a somewhat compelling argument. No need to add a pistol grip as another poster suggested above.
Thus, if you assemble a firearm that would not be legal for import, by sticking that 30 round mag in it, you then need to make sure it has no more than 10 foreign countable parts. A saiga rifle does not have all 20 parts rather it has 14. That means that you must remove, and for practical purposes replace with US made parts, 4 countable parts. A saiga rifle has the following parts:
1. Receiver
2. Barrel
3. Trunion (aka mounting block)
4. Bolt
5. Bolt carrier
6. Gas piston
7. Trigger
8. Hammer
9. Disconnector
10. Butt stock
11. Forearm/Hand guard
12. Mag body
13. Mag follower
14. Mag floor plate
*I have seen some argument over whether it has a sear, however, it is largely moot because most folks replace the whole FCG so whether it is 3 or 4 parts it all goes.
If I was going to forego all the handling and other performance benefits of restoring a saiga to factor configuration and I wanted to use 30 round mags there are a few routes one could take.
This is likely the easiest. Buy thermold aka master molder AK mags. They work in a saiga w/o a bullet guide and are 3 countable parts. That means you need to swap one more part. The hand guard would be the easiest. There are US made hand guard options ranging from cheap crap to good hand guards.
Pros: Thermold mags are very cheap. You only have to unscrew the factory hand guard and install a new one and trim the mag latch and you are good to go.
Cons: You will not be able to use mil surp AK mags because of legalities and lack of a bullet guide. However, for range gun thermolds are fine. If you want more than a range gun then you really should be doing other modifications to the weapon anyways.
You can come up with other ways to get the count to 10 but they are going to be more difficult and offer other various draw backs. I’m not going to go through all of them. I advocate vastly improving the gun in a number of respects and doing a basic conversion. Otherwise I would do the above.
Hopefully this adds some clarification. In the future I suggest that you not be so rude to folks who try to help you get some background info when you are in such desperate need of it that you are unable to even ask questions that make any sense.
One more thing. The following was quoted above:
However, it is not certain that converting one to accept AK-47 magazines automatically triggers a need for 922(r) compliance."
This could be talking about a few things. First, simply modifying the gun so that it could accept standard AK mags. There would be the strongest argument that this does not make the gun one that could not be imported. This is bolstered by the fact that all saigas have mags that hold more than 10 rounds which can be inserted and will function in a stock gun available. Some like the 5.45s are reported to work with standard mil surp mags without modification.
The statement could mean, as some argue, that the law only applies to assembling the gun and thus an end user putting a mag in an otherwise stock gun and shooting it does not violate the law (although the gun would be contraband subject to confiscation). I think this is a MUCH MUCH MUCH more tenuous argument. See the above discussion of "assemble."
One last note, the S12 forums are ok for certain info. However, the mods and certain people on that forum are pretty damn ignorant about many legal issues and put there head in the sand about certain things and then suppress discussion they don't like and honestly are to uneducated to even follow or evaluate.
Also that forum does not allow negative reviews of any vendors products. Thus, it is not a good place to get info on parts, businesses, etc. They only allow one side of things to be discussed. I don't waste my time there.
