Finding an Attorney...

[JAshley73]

Maybe this would be better in the Legal section, but I figured there is an ST&T element to my question.

My main question, is how does one wisely find an attorney? -The right attorney, as in one familiar with self defense cases, and possibly with trial experience.

I ask specifically, because The High Road school on post-defensive shooting (and many other instructors...) recommends having an attorney speak on your behalf after a self-defense incident. I assume it to be good wisdom to have an attorney before the incident, rather than afterwords, when the pressure on one would be astounding.

So, how to find an attorney? My wife and I are young and middle-class, meaning we don't have a "family" attorney. And I'm not sure a "family" attorney would be the best representation during a self-defense case anyway...

So where to start? Would the local Bar Association be a good place to start? Or should one establish a "family" attorney first, and ask for a referral?

The second question, is what kind of relationship is recommended, once an attorney is picked? Does one need to sit down and have an initial consultation, to become somewhat familiar? Or is a business card with phone number good enough?

I would greatly appreciate any thought and advice on the matter. Thanks.

 

[Craig_AR]

Consider joining the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, and using their list of referral lawyers. If you are in a state with the equivalent of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL), like WV or OH, look at their referral list. Plan for multiple attorneys for different purposes, not one for everything. An estate planning attorney is not likely to be the right one for either buying real estate or firearm self defense work.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

I bet the NRA could give you some good leads in your area

 

[hso]

Phone number on speed dial should be sufficient after finding out and briefly talking to the attorney.

 

[W.E.G.]

What do you want the attorney to do?

If you want to get legal advice from an attorney, you should expect to have to pay for that service.

How much do you want to spend right now?

Should you expect to pay any less than if you went to an M.D. and just chatted about general medical issues?

 

[Slotback]

Another check with the NRA.

 

[Jim K]

You wouldn't wait to shop for a car until you had to go somewhere, so you don't wait to do lawyer shopping until you are in handcuffs.

Talk to local gun dealers and gun club members. Any lawyer who has any ethics at all (yes, there are some) will represent you to the best of his/her ability regardless of personal views, but it helps to have one who understands the gun community. There is a view that an anti-gun lawyer is better as he/she will be seen as putting your case, not the lawyer's.

Once you find a lawyer, put him/her on retainer and make sure you memorize the phone number (the cops take away your cell phone first thing). The retainer means the lawyer is already committed to your cause.

Jim

 

[tepin]

Many defense lawyers defend mostly guilty people. This is why it is best to shop ahead of time in order to find an attorney that has hopefully and successfully defended at least one or two legitimate self-defense cases. The prisons are full of folks that think their attorney is awesome... because they only got 5 years instead of 15. I suspect Zimmerman's defense in total cost over $1M. Justice isn't cheap.

 

[mbt2001]

I actually think that this post is an important thought. The earlier you get an attorney the better off you will be. Police are not your friends, sorry to say. They are there to investigate and make a case on the person that they see is the suspect.

Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I am not prepared to make any comments or statements without my lawyer present.

 

[HOWARD J]

We have so many newcomers moving in that I am back to carrying a gun while cutting the lawn.
I guess it is time to dig up a lawyer.
Just the other day 2 young people were shot & killed just down the street in a store robbery.
Looks like the happy times are over

 

[leadcounsel]

Consider joining the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network, and using their list of referral lawyers.

Bingo. I am a criminal defense attorney. Having one on your speed dial is important. You want to know how many cases they have tried and have a conversation with them to determine their level of experience.

Many defense lawyers defend mostly guilty people. This is why it is best to shop ahead of time in order to find an attorney that has hopefully and successfully defended at least one or two legitimate self-defense cases. The prisons are full of folks that think their attorney is awesome... because they only got 5 years instead of 15. I suspect Zimmerman's defense in total cost over $1M. Justice isn't cheap.

This is also true. Better in my opinion to get a lawyer on retainer up front, or at least get to know one by stopping in, paying him for a 1/2 hour of his time, and having his number memorized just in case.

Sadly, a defense attorney is often outside the pricetag of most people. That is whey the ACLDN is such a good investment. A trial lawyer will charge hourly around $250 or, most likely, a flat rate into the $10,000-$50,000 for a garden variety self defense felony case. And if it gets complicated, that fee can easily rise from there.

 

[Jim K]

Another point about lawyers. As tepin says, most defendants (in the real non-Perry Mason world) are guilty, and the job of the lawyers is not to get them acquitted but to keep them from going to jail. So he will bargain, pleading his client guilty in return for release or a sentence to time served. Good for the criminal who serves little or no time. Good for the prosecutor who gets a conviction on his record without working for it. Good for the defense attorney who gets a lot of money for little work and a "street rep" for being the man to see when you are guilty.

For gun guys, there is a problem. A guilty plea is a conviction. And remember that business in federal law about convicted people not being able to own a gun, any kind, ever? But if you really are not guilty and have a strong case, you might not want to take the easy path just because your lawyer doesn't want to miss his vacation.

Jim

 

[JAshley73]

I had forgotten the ACLDN. That seems like a very wise move to join, and I will definitely look into it.

I do have a couple questions though. First, what does it mean to have an attorney "on retainer?" I assume this a greater commitment and investment than a half-hour chat as a business card, correct? Just what does it usually require of the client, and is there any benefit for someone like myself, over a consultation and a memorized phone number?

Second, is, what kind of defense attorney do I need to be looking for. I understand that "defense attorney" could mean defending people who are legitimately guilty of whatever offense. Does a self-defense case require a different type of defense attorney? (A legitimate self-defense case, not a cop-out self-defense plea in lieu of murder charges type case...) I mean no offense to anyone (including our resident attorneys - thank you for your help gentlemen,) but is there any danger selecting a defense attorney who might normally be defending guilty offenders? (Again, sorry or any non-P.C. language here, just trying to be honest in my questions and thoughts.)

Let's assume that I have a clean criminal record (I do), with no priors other than speeding tickets from my youth (also true,) and am an upstanding, law-abiding citizen. A plea-deal would be a loss, so I wouldn't want an attorney apt to going this route.

I'm sorry for all of the vague questions, and again, I appreciate all of the input so far. Thank you all.

 

[Fred Fuller]

ACLDN is a good option IMHO.

When I got an NC CCH, the legal portion of the class was presented by a criminal defense attorney. I kept his card.

On a previous occasion when I had to avail myself of counsel, the best advice I got on which to choose came from asking a bail bondsman I knew which local attorney was a good criminal defense attorney - as in "He's who I would pick if I had to go to court."

 

[Jim K]

Hi, JAshley73,

If you are concerned about whether you might have a problem, you should definitely find an attorney. Without going into too much detail, a consultation with an attorney simply exchanges information. A retainer is like any other purchase of a service; it is one side of a binding legal contract between the lawyer and his client.

As I said above, finding an attorney is not really that hard. The organizations mentioned can help, but I would never hire an attorney without talking to him/her in person. Anyone who harms another person in self-defense can be prosecuted in criminal court; the best attorney is a specialist in criminal law. He/she would defend you in a criminal court, where the state is the prosecutor because you have been charged with committing a crime.

But, like doctors, lawyers specialize. Regardless of an outcome in criminal court, you may be sued by the "victim", or his survivors, in civil court, for wrongful death, loss of his income, or whatever. For defense in civil court, you need a specialist in civil law, though some attorneys will work in both areas.

Jim

 

[JAshley73]

Hi, JAshley73,

If you are concerned about whether you might have a problem, you should definitely find an attorney.

I'm definitely not in any trouble. I'm just beginning down the path of legal concealed carry, and am working on the mindset part of it right now. Like others have said earlier, better to have preparations in advance, than be caught in a troubling situation while unprepared.

I guess for the armed citizen, an attorney is like insurance for the motorist. Best to have it before you get caught in an accident.

Thanks again folks.

 

[HOWARD J]

Just to let you know that they caught the newcomer that killed the two young kids in the Dollar store killing----he took the girl down the street & shot her in the head.
He was fired from a Dollar Store in another city & being of the typical lazy type did not want to drive all the way to his store so he killed these kids near his house.
Jessie & Al will not be here-----this is not their type of money maker

 

[zorro45]

You might keep an eye on the local paper and see who the attorney is who is representing cops on behalf of the local union when they get in a jam. You can buy an hour or two consultation w/ him and see if you are compatible and get his phone numbers.

 

[Jim K]

I would be leery of a lawyer who represents police. He could share the common police attitude that "only cops should have guns." While in theory, any lawyer should do his/her best for you, a lawyer can often subconsciously communicate, by body language, the attitude that "I'm doing this for money, but I really think this SOB should go to prison for life." That kind of "representation" will do you no good.

Jim

 

[Dlowe167]

I see those ads of Second Defense attorney.Has anyone used them?Thoughts/comments?

 

[rooter]

While in theory, any lawyer should do his/her best for you, a lawyer can often subconsciously communicate, by body language, the attitude that "I'm doing this for money,

LOL! Any attorney you retain is only doing it for the money. Thinking otherwise is plain foolish.

 

[gamestalker]

Contact Douglas Little at armedpersonadefense.com.. He is an attorney and certified exert as well with anything that concerns legal matters and self defense with lethal weapons. I'm certain he would be able to steer you in the right direction, as to who in your state or locality, is a good attorney in this respect.

I have know Doug for a long time and he probably one the best in the business. As a defense attorney and expert witness, he is well known, and respected regarding his expertise and advice. And he won't charge you a dime for simple guidance or advice. Shoot him and e-mail (no pun intended) and he will respond quickly, which is also one of his notable attributes as attorney's are concerned.

GS

 

[mbt2001]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution. 9 times out of 10 the "suspect" / defendant gives the police what they need to prosecute. For instance, they make a statement about what happened. That statement then has to be worked into the defense strategy, effectively limiting the lawyer's mobility in the case.

If you want to stay free you will act like a guilty person and disregard the comments of police that they are trying to help you and you need to work with them. You need to take advantage of every right you have. Getting a lawyer will not keep you out of jail, but it is your best chance to stay out of prison.

 

[BLB68]

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Not always. In many (most?) states, an affirmative defense claim shifts the burden of proof to the accused. Claims of self defense are affirmative defenses.

 

[Jim K]

Yep. In pleading self defense, you admit that 1) you did in fact injure/kill the other guy and 2) that you did it intentionally and deliberately. And then it is up to your attorney to show that you did in fact act in self defense. You can't claim self defense then say you didn't mean to do it, or that it was an accident.

So if your self defense claim fails, you will be almost automatically convicted of whatever the charge is - murder one, murder two, manslaughter, or whatever.

Jim