Finger printing and photographing for a trust

[greyling22]

I am going to buy another suppressor. My first suppressor since the rule change. I know everybody on the trust needs to be fingerprinted and photographed. My question is this: the atf will send you fingerprint cards for free, can I get an ink pad and roll my own fingerprints, or do I need to go to the local police Dept. Same question about photos.

And before you say, oh, just pay the police $10, it's not that much, if I have 7 people on my trust, fees start to add up fast, and I need to save money for adapters. And barrel threading. And my sbr......

 

[Theohazard]

The photos can be taken by anyone. They simply need to be 2" by 2" and fit the requirements for passport photos. The Silencer Shop kiosk is paired with an app that lets you take your own passport photos using your phone and a white background.

As for the fingerprints, they need to be on FBI FD-258 fingerprint cards (free from the ATF) and the ATF says they can be completed by anyone "properly equipped" to take fingerprints. So if you have the cards and an ink pad, you can roll your own fingerprints, Silencer Shop even sells a kit for you to use.

 

[greyling22]

Awesome. That is exactly what I needed to know. I ordered the atf 258 cards 3 days ago, and there are passport photo apps out there I can use. This will save me a bundle. Now I can get my 1894c threaded!

 

[bikemutt]

Forgive me for asking but I'm having a hard time figuring why the FBI would accept fingerprint cards from an untrusted source?

 

[CapnMac]

Forgive me for asking but I'm having a hard time figuring why the FBI would accept fingerprint cards from an untrusted source?

Well, despite using fingerprints for a century or so, matching is more art than science even with all the technology to hand.

Only on the tv shows do they have spiffy computers which flip through every fingerprint ever taken in history and instanly find a match.

The FBI cards are a standard, because they are about the only standard available for fingerprints at all. Fingerprints run from faint to muddy, to somewhere in between.

 

[dogtown tom]

Forgive me for asking but I'm having a hard time figuring why the FBI would accept fingerprint cards from an untrusted source?

Because the cards are sent to the FBI from ATF.

 

[wally]

Only on the tv shows do they have spiffy computers which flip through every fingerprint ever taken in history and instantly find a match.

Pitty the poor sap in the US (lucky for him he was a lawyer) who had a spiffy computer fingerprint match to a Terrorist attack in Spain! Another dirty little secret is they are not "your's forever", they do change, especially if you work construction with concrete. Most of the reason you need fingerprints with each transfer is just to hassle us, but this is why it'll be a difficult to remove the requirement.

My next purchase will be as an individual, I won't put my beneficiaries through the hassle of prints and photos. Having them able to use/posses them without me is a minor benefit that we have never yet actually used.

 

[bikemutt]

Because the cards are sent to the FBI from ATF.

Ah, that makes sense now, I forgot about the middle man.

 

[ponchh]

The photo is easy, but to lay down 10 good prints the first try is slim at best. If you can get 20 cards to try, try again you gotta chance. When you get notice from ATF the prints are not readable, maybe just one little smudge on one print you are back to square one. what is your blood pressure worth.

 

[greyling22]

So there are 2 fingerprint cards you can order. Fbi-258fa ffl application fingerprint card and fbi-258le Fbi fingerprint cards

I had both sent to me, and the only difference is that the ffl application cards are stamped in the ori box:
wvatf1100
Aft-fflc
Martinsburg WV

While the fbi258le cards are stamped
Wvatf0800
Atf-natl tra ctr
Martinsburg, WV

Which do I submit?

 

[dogtown tom]

My next purchase will be as an individual, I won't put my beneficiaries through the hassle of prints and photos. Having them able to use/posses them without me is a minor benefit that we have never yet actually used.

Why not simply rename your trust?
If your original trust is the 'Wally NFA Trust", just make your next trust the "Wally Trust" or the "Wally Family NFA Trust" or the :Wally2 NFA Trust".........with only YOU listed as a responsible person. After the ATF returns your tax stamp you can as as many new responsible persons as you desire.

This is the idea on the Single Shot Trust at Silencershop.com, each silencer has it's own trust, originally with only one member/responsible person.

 

[dogtown tom]

So there are 2 fingerprint cards you can order. Fbi-258fa ffl application fingerprint card and fbi-258le Fbi fingerprint cards

I had both sent to me, and the only difference is that the ffl application cards are stamped in the ori box:
wvatf1100
Aft-fflc
Martinsburg WV

While the fbi258le cards are stamped
Wvatf0800
Atf-natl tra ctr
Martinsburg, WV

Which do I submit?

Get the 258LE card.........when you order the cards from the distribution center at ATF.gov the drop down menu even says "FBI-FD-258LE- NFA, imports ORI WVATF 0800".

To make life easier, follow the excellent instructions at:https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Work-In-Progress-new-F1-F4-guide-for-41F-submissions/17-465636/

 

[dogtown tom]

The photo is easy, but to lay down 10 good prints the first try is slim at best. If you can get 20 cards to try, try again you gotta chance. When you get notice from ATF the prints are not readable, maybe just one little smudge on one print you are back to square one. what is your blood pressure worth.

One smudge isn't going to kick back a FP card. Heck, I have a customer who's missing a finger. And it's not ten prints........its twenty. Ten straight press down or "slaps" and ten "rolls".

Out of 300+ sets of prints submitted post 41F I've yet to have any kicked back.....but then again the majority were either scanned by my kiosk or scanned at a police station.

 

[greyling22]

You still have to get the responsible people photod and printed, right? Whether it is on the original submission, or when they are added later.

 

[dogtown tom]

You still have to get the responsible people photod and printed, right? Whether it is on the original submission, or when they are added later.

No.
Only the responsible persons on the trust at the time of application are required to submit prints and photos.

 

[greyling22]

hot dog! that simplifies my life considerably. I couldn't believe there would be that big a flaw/loophole/vulnerability, but google appears to confirm you are right dogtown. if only you were 1.5 hours closer to me I'd have a new ffl.....