Fire formed cases wont chamber

[Saintsfan1977]

Hello, Im new to reloading and Im trying to figure something out.

I am shooting a Browning A-bolt 270WSM with Federal Premium ammo. I was under the impression that fire formed rounds should chamber in my gun.

I can take any empty case I have shot, (unsized or untrimmed, straight from ejection) try to rechamber, and the bolt will not close in my rifle.

If I want to reload these same rounds neck sizing only using a Lee Collet die it wouldnt work.

I have a Lee Classic Cast press and I also tried full length sizing but my decapping/expander rod got stuck in the case mouth. The mouth seemed to be dragging on the rod. I lubed the rod and tried again. It seemed like considerable force was necessary to open the case the case mouth. I back the die out until it was able to go down to the shell holder and it still wont chamber. I followed Lee's directions , screw die in until it touches the shell holder, lower ram and turn 1/4 more.

I wouldnt think I need to bump the shoulder back after firing a factory round only once in my rifle?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[WestKentucky]

That's how it works. Neck size the case and your good to go unless you have a flaw in your chamber meaning that it isn't truly round

 

[steve4102]

If I want to reload these same rounds neck sizing only using a Lee Collet die it wouldnt work.

Have you tried the Collet die yet or are you assuming it will not work?

Give it a try. Most likely the neck diameter needs to be reduced (by the collet die) to fit the chamber.

I also tried full length sizing but my decapping/expander rod got stuck in the case mouth.

Got stuck as in stayed there, or was difficult to lower the ram?

If it was difficult to lower the ram, try lubing the inside of the case mouth and not to expander itself.

Take the die apart and measure the expander.

Measure the case length.

I back the die out until it was able to go down to the shell holder and it still wont chamber. I followed Lee's directions , screw die in until it touches the shell holder, lower ram and turn 1/4 more.

Backing a full length die out can cause the shoulder to be pushed forward and increase the head to datum cause the case to not chamber.

Lee says 1/4 to 1/3 more. Start at 1/4 and increase if necessary until the case chambers.

Make sure lee sent you the correct die and expander.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Steve,
I tried the Collet die but it doesnt seem to be doing anything. A bullet wont go in the case mouth without being seated before or after collet sizing.

The decapper/expander rod got stuck in the case. When I lowered the ram the rod came out the die. I was able to put it back in and finally size it but its extremely tough to open that case mouth and the round doesnt chamber.

All my cases are under the 2.100 max oal. They are around 2.09 and still wont chamber.

I dont understand why I cant chamber an empty case shot from my rifle. The Collet die will only close the neck to tighten it. So even after doing that it wont chamber.

 

[JimKirk]

I can take any empty case I have shot, (unsized or untrimmed, straight from ejection) try to rechamber, and the bolt will not close in my rifle.

Something is not right ... you should be able to reinsert a fired case back into the same chamber as it was fired in with out a lot of force ...

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Well Jim that is why im asking because the bolt simply wont close on any case fired in my chamber. The question is what do I do now?

 

[MEHavey]

Put a small stripe on the cartridge case w/ a magic marker.
Insert the cartridge in the rifle, stripe "up".
Fire and eject it.

If it will re-chamber that way (stripe up), but not any other way, then the chamber itself is out of round.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Welcome to the forum and reloading...
Since you're a new reloader I don't think it's a good idea for you to be doing more advanced reloading before learning the basics first. Fire-forming brass and neck sizing isn't hard but slightly more advanced than standard reloading.

What cases are you using to fire-form to your rifle? Why not start with new brass and then see if there's a problem with those too? It sounds like you're not adjusting the dies correctly because you shouldn't be having this much trouble. don't give up, we will figure this out...

Is it possible to find someone in the area that might mentor you? Seeing it done is worth 10,000 words.

 

[choppinlow]

So much of everything you have mentioned does not seem right at all SF77.

First is the cases not going back in right where they came out of. Are they difficult to extract after firing? Comes out but won't go right back in at all?

Second is bullet won't go in the case mouth before any sizing. Are you certain you have the right bullet?

And very strange that any sized brass won't chamber and your difficulty with the dies. Are you certain you have the right die set?

Sorry to ask such basic questions but all these things are uncommon alone much less all at the same time.

 

[joem1945]

Check carefully on one of you loaded rounds to see if your crimping it too much and buckling the shoulder. That will make a very slight bulge just back from the shoulder. Many new reloaders have done this. Us eyou thumb and index finger to slide it from the case base to the shoulder and see if you feel a slight bulge just before the shoulder.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

I am using Federal Premium Vital Shock- Barnes TSX 130gr

I have not seated a bullet, primed, or added powder yet. I am simply saying that these factory rounds shoot great. I wanted to reload these cases (once fired in my own own rifle)
so I got everything I needed to reload except primers, powder and bullets.

I sent 2 fired cases and a Barnes bullet which I pulled from my factory rounds. They built me a custom Collet die and dead length seater.

What Im saying is after firing the factory round I can eject the empty cartridge no problem. The problem is that a fire formed case wont go back in the chamber. I cant close the bolt at all if I stick an empty fired case in the chamber. There is a problem right there. Firget about sizing for a minute.

A fireformed case should easily go back in my rifle but it wont. It will go in and get stuck but it easily comes out with a rod down the barrel. If I pull a bullet from a factory round the empty case will chamber and bolt close. The case will extract no problem and it slides out without getting stuck. All my fired brass wont go back in the chamber though.

Also after firing I can take a Barnes bullet and it will not go into the case mouth without being seated. I cant seat a bullet with my fingers. The case mouth doesnt open up at all after firing.

 

[243winxb]

Full Length Sizing

270WSM

I can take any empty case I have shot, (unsized or untrimmed, straight from ejection) try to rechamber, and the bolt will not close in my rifle.

The chamber is oval or the bolt face is not square to the chamber. Full length every time you load. Adjust dies correctly. If sized brass still will not chamber, remove .005" from the shell holder and size again. If this fails, send die with 3 fired brass from factory ammo out of your rifle to Lee. From Mr. Lee

Can't close bolt on rifle (full length resizing)

Posted by on 20 October 2011 07:57 AM


First make sure the the sizing die is adjusted so that the shell holder contacts the base of the die when the ram is at the top of its stroke when resizing a case. This ensures that the sizing die is bumping the shoulder back as well as reducing the diameter of the case. If the shell holder does not contact the base of the die, the diameter of the case is squeezed down, making the case (and distance to the shoulder) longer.

If this does not solve the problem, return the sizing die with a couple of fired cases, and we can modify the die to suit.

Our address is:

Lee Precision Inc,
4275 Hwy. U
Hartford, WI 53027.

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/141/0/cant-close-bolt-on-rifle

 

[243winxb]

Neck diameter - Measure factory rounds, compare to fired neck diameter. The bullet dropping into a fired case is not a good test.

 

[fguffey]

I am shooting a Browning A-bolt 270WSM

I am not a speed reader, the 'S' between the W and M after 270 always catch my attention, then there are the two 'SS' 'es' that stand for super short. Reloaders will not accept the 'S and SS" ammo hammer the cases. Hammering cases increase the cases' ability to resist sizing and recovery. I believe the cases ability to resist chambering is normal. I have test tired cases that I can not stuff back into a die. I have cases that have been fired in larger chambers that are not worth the effort.

I had words with Winchester, I wanted Winchester dies that would fit cases fired in their large/ugly chamber or a chamber small enough to fit my dies.

I have chamber gages, more often than not the fired case requires thumb pressure to seat. When sizing I control the amount of sizing, I can not 'bump' the shoulder back without case body support. When sizing the body the shoulder of the case moves forward, as they said 40+ years ago, in an arch,

F Guffey

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I am using Federal Premium Vital Shock- Barnes TSX 130gr

I sent 2 fired cases and a Barnes bullet which I pulled from my factory rounds. They built me a custom Collet die and dead length seater.

I'm still at a loss as to why you needed to have custom dies made for a hunting rifle? Why do you feel the need to neck size only? What am I missing here?

I'm also at a total loss as to why fired brass from your rifle won't chamber in the same rifle. I agree it's very possible "The chamber is oval or the bolt face is not square to the chamber." You might want to contact Browning.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

I wanted Lee Collet dies to size the neck. Since I heard there was better accuracy and longer case life neck sizing only. Lee doesnt make any for the 270wsm unless you get have them custom make them. I didnt think about trying my cases in my rifle before ordering the dies. I assumed fire formed cases always went in the rifle they were fired in. Mine apparently dont. I will mark a stripe with a marker on a bullet and fire it and see if it chambers back that way. Either way it seems there is a problem with the chamber.

 

[JimKirk]

You surely have a GUN problem and not a reloading problem .... take your gun to a Browning Gun Smith and find out what the problem is with your gun ...

 

[243winxb]

Either way it seems there is a problem with the chamber.

The factory only cares if the rifle will NOT work with factory ammo. And it does. So not a gun problem? The 270WSM works at 65,000 psi , its going to need FL sizing. Or at least a Redding body die with the Lee neck collet die. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/444712/redding-body-die-270-winchester-short-magnum-wsm But as someone said, learn the basics first. Good luck.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

I already have a Redding body die being shipped. The basics say fire formed brass is the best to use. Obviously my gun cant use fire formed brass so there is a problem there.

 

[Rule3]

What is the length of your cases??

Just to clarify you are shooting factory ammo, you eject the fired case and then that same fired case will not chamber?

As I think was mentioned, Put a marker line on the ammo before you shoot it. Then after you fire it put it back in with the line in the same position like on top or the side, Does it fit and bolt close?

 

[fguffey]

unless you have a flaw in your chamber meaning that it isn't truly round

Next index the cases in the chamber, after fire forming roll the cases, if the chamber is not round the fired cases is not round, then there are micrometers and dial caliperes or roll the case.

When determining if my press has the ability to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing I determine if the ram made it to the bottom of the die. I have also gone to the trouble to remove the die before lowering the ram. Removing the die with the case before lowering the ram allow me to measure the case head protrusion from the die. In the perfect world the protrusion should be .125", .125" is the same as the deck height of the shell holder.

Then load ammo with light and heavy loads, chamber and fire. Do not be surprised the cases fired with heavy loads will not fit a chamber gage or in the chamber they were fired in, without effort.

F. Guffey

 

[gamestalker]

Just a thought here, have you tried cleaning thee chamber and bolt face? It takes an almost visually undetectable piece of debris to cause this type problem.

Also, take a really close look at your fired brass. Inspect it for any transfer marks that would be left there by either a defect or debris in the chamber or on the bolt face.

That's all I got.

GS

 

[Saintsfan1977]

What is the length of your cases??

Just to clarify you are shooting factory ammo, you eject the fired case and then that same fired case will not chamber?

As I think was mentioned, Put a marker line on the ammo before you shoot it. Then after you fire it put it back in with the line in the same position like on top or the side, Does it fit and bolt close?

The length is 2.09. The max length of an empty cartridge is 2.100 so length isnt the problem.

Correct. I fire a factory round, exract it and it will not go back in. I will try the marker thing in a bit and reply back with the results.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Just a thought here, have you tried cleaning thee chamber and bolt face? It takes an almost visually undetectable piece of debris to cause this type problem.

Also, take a really close look at your fired brass. Inspect it for any transfer marks that would be left there by either a defect or debris in the chamber or on the bolt face.

That's all I got.

GS

The chamber had rust spots which i cleaned best i could with steel wool. im not saying my chamber is spotless and that this isnt the cause. i tried that and i get the same results. the bolt face is cleaned.

 

[fguffey]

And I wonder why they add the 'S' and the 'SS', The 'S' is SHORT, the SS is SUPER SHORT. They do not mention 'smaller in diameter'. I wonder? Could larger in diameter have anything to do with the problem?

F. Guffey