Fire formed cases wont chamber

[Saintsfan1977]

Ok guys just got back. Marked a line on the case and fired it. Round will chamber nicely afterwards. I felt a little resistance on the bolt closing so I guess I was scared of closing the bolt harder? I grabbed about 7 fired cases and they all chamber nicely and extract easily.

Sorry for wasting yalls time. I do appreciate the responses though and thanks all of you again.

 

[Greg Mercurio]

SO I'm guessing Brownig Customer Service will be getting a call?

 

[Saintsfan1977]

No. My rounds seem to chamber now. I think the little bit of resistance closing the bolt was scaring me thinking something bad would happen and I wouldnt be able to extract the case. All is good now. Every case I tried chambers now with no problems. Thanks for the response.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Next question

How do I measure neck tension? I was hoping I could seat a bullet by hand to play with how much depth I would need on or off the lands but that wont happen because the neck doesnt open up enough for a bullet to go in by hand. So how could I find out how much neck tension I need when the neck is already tight?

 

[rcmodel]

If you mean a bullet won't go in a fired case, you have a tight chamber problem that needs to be addressed by Browning.

If you mean a fired case won't go in a resized case, that is perfectly normal and you have proper neck tension.

rc

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Ok thanks rcmodel

 

[rcmodel]

Which is it?
Fired and not sized?
Or fired & sized?

rc

 

[243winxb]

finding OAL

http://www.larrywillis.com/OAL.html Finding OAL. slit the neck with a fine cut. Or buy a tool. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11470/GunTechdetail/Gauging-Success-Minimum-Headspace-and-Maximum-COL

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Fired and not sized

Thanks 243

 

[Greg Mercurio]

Why would you want to measure neck tension, and what units are you going to give it? Pounds of force required to shove bullet into case? G-loads (impulse/time) required to move bullet during recoil? And how will you use the data assuming you have the equipment required to measure it? I'm really curious.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

Why would you want to measure neck tension, and what units are you going to give it? Pounds of force required to shove bullet into case? G-loads (impulse/time) required to move bullet during recoil? And how will you use the data assuming you have the equipment required to measure it? I'm really curious.

I know what you mean. My question wasnt worded properly? What I meant was I dont want the bullet to size the case. Some of my cases after fired, I cant put a bullet through them by hand. So if there is already tension there and I pass them through the Collet die to neck size I wont know how much tension I have since not every round has the same tension. I can seat bullets by hand in some cases but not others. So every case will have different tension holding the bullet so I would assume when seating there would be some accuracy issues there?

Not sure just thinking out loud so to speak.

 

[FLIGHT762]

You will find that you may get about 3-4 firings from you neck only sized cases before they will not chamber. They will then need a F/L resizing that will bump the shoulder back to chamber back in the rifle.

I only use the neck only collet sized ammo for target ammunition. I do not use them for hunting rifle ammunition. I F/L size any ammo used for hunting. I've had to beat open my bolt too many times using "Neck Sized" only brass.

If you use a properly set F/L sizing die, your brass will last as long as neck only sizing.

You said you have a F/L die. What type of case lube are you using ? If you're using Hornady one shot, you need to try something better.

It sounds to me that you're not using the proper type and / or amount of lube. It does take considerable force to F/L size a large case. You need a very sturdy bench. If your bench is flexing, that can also be a problem.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

When you size your cases, hold them in place for an 8 or 10 count, then bring them out of the die. This helps with the spring back, and allows a bit more uniformity. Some variables are in the case neck brass thickness; which may be some of what you feel when seating a bullet.

Your measurements for case length were pretty close. Try and measure several unfired cases and then measure several fired cases. If your cases are growing a good bit, you need/may need to trim each time.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

You will find that you may get about 3-4 firings from you neck only sized cases before they will not chamber. They will then need a F/L resizing that will bump the shoulder back to chamber back in the rifle.

I only use the neck only collet sized ammo for target ammunition. I do not use them for hunting rifle ammunition. I F/L size any ammo used for hunting. I've had to beat open my bolt too many times using "Neck Sized" only brass.

If you use a properly set F/L sizing die, your brass will last as long as neck only sizing.

You said you have a F/L die. What type of case lube are you using ? If you're using Hornady one shot, you need to try something better.

It sounds to me that you're not using the proper type and / or amount of lube. It does take considerable force to F/L size a large case. You need a very sturdy bench. If your bench is flexing, that can also be a problem.

I know I would need to FL size after neck sizing a few. I just thought maybe my case life would last longer but if I can get almost 10 reloads out a case Im good. Might have to get some better brass for that?

I have some Lee case lube coming in soon. I will use it before I do anything else.

I just built a small bench 24" x 42" with the press bolted to 2 1/4" top. No flex in the bench. I built the NRMA bench scaled down length and width wise but I didnt skim when it came to the top being sturdy.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

DRYHUMOR,

The cases really dont need to be trimmed after firing. They are under 2.100 and unfired cases are around 2.09.

 

[utvolsfan77]

Regarding dies, four years ago I purchased a Lee 3-die set for 270 WSM from MidwayUSA. I later bought the Lee Factory Crimp Die from Midway as well. Currently all they are showing is here: http://www.midwayusa.com/find?sortb...onids=4294846304&newcategorydimensionid=12623

 

[gamestalker]

Just make sure they don't exceed the 2.100" length. But being you are new to reloading, I think you should know why bottle necks need to be maintained to within SAAMI spec.. When bottle neck brass exceeds SAAMI max, thee mouth can get pinched in the throat. When this happens, pressures can go through the roof. So trimming is not something to be taken lightly, it's mandatory for bottle neck loading.

And if accuracy is important to you, as I would think it would be for anyone loading for a bolt gun, maintain all your brass to the same lengths.

Being that you are experiencing tight necks after being fired, I would think that rifle needs to go back to the manufacturer, sounds like the chamber is out of spec, which isn't a good thing, especially with an already high pressure cartridge such as the WSM.

GS

 

[DRYHUMOR]

TRIM length is 2.090 MAX length is 2.100

As gamestalker stated, if a short throat or long neck pinches the bullet, pressure will spike. Not a good thing.

 

[fguffey]

Neck tight after firing? Methods and technique, when at the firing range and firing a rifle that is new to me I check the neck of the first fired case. After firing and before I chamber the next round I place the bullet end of the round into the neck of the fired case. Never in my life have I found a case neck that was too tight for the bullet that was fired from it.

Remember, I am sticking the pointed end of the bullet in first and the two cases make contact. HANDY? I am surrounded with 8mm06 and 30/06 rifles. The 8mm bullet will not fit the neck of a fired 30/06 case. Assuming the chamber is tight could be a fatal mistake.

F. Guffey

 

[fguffey]

Next question

How do I measure neck tension? I was hoping I could seat a bullet by hand to play with how much depth I would need on or off the lands but that wont happen because the neck doesnt open up enough for a bullet to go in by hand. So how could I find out how much neck tension I need when the neck is already tight?

There is a conflict, if the neck of the chamber is that tight you would experience high pressure. The case neck must expand to release the bullet. Unclenick has put together a post on curling case mouths, again, I have never experienced a case neck that was too small to fit the bullet that was fired from it. And, no matter what rifle, no matter what chamber, I stick the bullet of the next round into the last case fired. When removing the bullet all I hear is the 'whoosh' of air passing between the bullet and neck.

F. Guffey

 

[243winxb]

Neck Tension = bullet pull in lbs.

Collet die pressure exertion



All of the sizing in the Collet die takes place at the very end of the stroke, when the ram/shell holder appears to bottom out against the base of the die. If you lean into the handle at this point, you will force the collet up into the die body, and cause the collet to squeeze the case neck down against the mandrel (the very end of which pops out the spent primer). About 25 lbs. of force is sufficient to resize most cases. If you are sitting in front of your press, just leaning your upper body weight into the lever is about right.

A good way to determine how much is necessary is to start the case into the die and feel the die remove the primer. Start using pressure and work up to what you think is about 25 lbs.(good luck with that) Remove the case from the die and attempt to place the intended bullet in the case neck. If there is little or no resistance, repeat the process with slightly more pressure. When you have reached a point where there are vertical striation marks on the outside of the case neck or the intended bullet does not fit easily into the case neck, the correct amount of pressure has been achieved.

From Lee http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Base/Search/Index I dont use Lee. But the 5.56 military round requires a minimum of 35 lbs bullet pull. My testing showed that seating a bullet in a sized neck, has to expand the neck a minimum of .002" to obtain the minimum neck tension/bullet pull. Using a bath room scale, i seat a bullet in a sized, empty case. With leverage, i slowly apply pressure to the nose of the bullet, while watching the scale. When the bullet moves, i see the bullet pull weight in pounds. May not be accurate, but works for me. I do not know how PSI relates or converts to pounds ?? But you get the idea, i hope. Bushing dies are a much better way to control neck tension and using outside neck turned brass.

 

[fguffey]

There is a new tool for seating bullets, it does not measure tension, it measures bullet hold in pounds, or grip, it does not measure interference or crush fit. The new tool measures the amount of effort required to seat a bullet in pounds. I have always been able to measure bullet seating effort in pounds, I have always been able to measure bullet pulling effort, always in pounds as in bullet hold, sometimes called grip.

F. Guffey

 

[243winxb]

Litte to no neck tension

Greg Mercurio - Why would you want to measure neck tension,

Litte to no neck tension will let the bullet move to soon, causing the powder to not burn correctly. In 9mm, a magnum primer (not all) has been known to cause secondary pressure spikes. To much neck tension or a neck thats sized to small will be expanded by the bullet on seating. This may lead to concentric problems. In a cartridge like a 270 wsm or other magnums that burn a lot of slow powder, very light neck tension may become a problem, when combined with other factors. Here is a good example of things gone wrong. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4928827#post4928827

[/URL][/IMG] Most reloaders, using standard dies, will never know how much or lilttle neck tension there reloads have and it won't matter. Reloaders using a Lee collet neck sizer or bushing die should know.

 

[Saintsfan1977]

I will get a few more tools before I start reloading like a micrometer to check the neck sizes, I also dont have a case tumbler yet. Im about to check all the necks with a bullet. I know the case I shot yesterday will let me push a bullet in by hand but Im not sure all the cases will.

I let the case sit in the gun a little while after shooting yesterday. Normally I eject as soon as I shoot so maybe its possible that it fireforms better when the case is left to sit in the rifle a little longer? Im not sure the mouth would be altered by this though.

 

[fguffey]

I let the case sit in the gun a little while after shooting yesterday.

When shooting with other reloaders it gets noisy when I look through the spotter scope, check the target etc. before ejecting the case. They think leaving the case in the chamber with the bolt closed heats the rifle. It is an automatic thing after pulling the trigger. They are conditioned to holler "Get the case out of the chamber!"

F. Guffey