Firing warning shots

[.cheese.]

I just want to post this to make sure everybody is clear on this concept.

There is no such thing as a "warning shot" there are only "stray bullets"

I see time and time again on tv actors firing warning shots for dramatic effect.... it bothers me because it shows a complete lack of understanding of how to responsibly handle a firearm.

I won't go into the details of this whole rant - most if not all should know what I'm talking about.

NO WARNING SHOTS - EVER.

If you have to pull the trigger - it is to shoot center-mass..... nothing more, nothing less.

I'll let others elaborate in case they'd like to.

 

[jeffkirchner]

NO WARNING SHOTS - EVER.

If you have to pull the trigger - it is to shoot center-mass..... nothing more, nothing less.

Yes.

 

[45/70]

Yeah, if you pull a gun on someone you provide legal justification for their defense using lethal force. You pulled a gun on them. And so, you don't let them know you have a gun until the bullets are flying out of the muzzle in their direction.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Hey E, et. al., I agree with the warning shot issue with a real bullet, as one is responsible where that puppy comes down. As I posted in another thread, I'm still too new with my pistols IMO, and for both inside the house and any other situation outside the house, I'm loaded, chambered, with one blank, 9 hollows-points to follow.

I know what the majority will say, and do, and maybe with another 500 -1000rounds thru my guns, I will get to the learned-stage of pure-thought, and the 4 rules, but until I feel that secure-zone, all-natural feel and thought process, I'm sticking with the blank warning shot (no harm to come down) nor hole in my ceiling, or the one warning shot that hopefully gets the message across, "hell's comin" without screwing the pooch, one way or another.

I know this does not bode well with most, but I have to account for my actions if and when it ever occurs, and living here in a big city, when one fires a 40cal or 9mm, the police will know, the time, type weapon, and who, so, that is my safety net so to speak.

I was the same way with flying, I got my Private Pilots licence at 96hrs TT. Most get them in 40hrs TT, but I had to have full knowledge of aerobatics/unusual attitudes and recovery, before I took the next step as PIC, Pilot In Command, and took up my friends, and eventually paying passengers/students.

And that was way back in 1976.. lol nothing has changed in me

Someone's signature line says it best IMHO.. "your best thinking got you where you are today.."




LS

 

[jeffkirchner]

I know this does not bode well with most, but I have to account for my actions if and when it ever occurs, and living here in a big city, when one fires a 40cal or 9mm, the police will know, the time, type weapon, and who, so, that is my safety net so to speak.

Huh? You've chosen to defend your life, or the life of another innocent person, with a "blank"? And you think the police in your city will say, "Hey, way to go, guy." I think they will, too, then they'll roll there eyes.

 

[expvideo]

This thread is absurd. Is there really a discussion here? Are we waiting for someone to chime in so we can flame them? There's no question or anything, just a forceful and absolute opinion.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, but.. um... what's the purpose of this thread?


edit: oh and fyi, lonestar, if you fire a blank it's not going to cycle your slide, so your 9 rounds aren't going anywhere.

 

[jeffkirchner]

This thread is absurd. Is there really a discussion here? Are we waiting for someone to chime in so we can flame them? There's no question or anything, just a forceful and absolute opinion.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, but.. um... what's the purpose of this thread?


edit: oh and fyi, lonestar, if you fire a blank it's not going to cycle your slide, so your 9 rounds aren't going anywhere.

thread = A set of posts on a newsgroup, composed of an initial post about a topic and all responses to it.

 

[Lonestar49]

Quote:

This thread is absurd. Is there really a discussion here? Are we waiting for someone to chime in so we can flame them? There's no question or anything, just a forceful and absolute opinion.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the purpose of this thread, but.. um... what's the purpose of this thread?


edit: oh and fyi, lonestar, if you fire a blank it's not going to cycle your slide, so your 9 rounds aren't going anywhere.
__________________

...


Thanks E for the heads up.. learn something new everyday, and if that is an absolute, then I may change my thinking of the blank, quick.

And, the flame call, on the money IMHO, as some must stand out.. I never have understood that type of thinking.

As far as what is this thread for? Well, for one, it has educated me as to my uneducated, unknown non-
researched, thought of using a blank in all 3 of my handguns, because if E is correct, and I'm leaning that he is, then it has educated me into making an educated decision to either always have my guns chambered with live ammo or, un-chambered with full mag loads, and the need to engage the slide-action to load one up, if I have time.

And that is a good educational argument to ponder and come to a decision, which choice it will be for me.

You all have my thanks,


LS

 

[sacp81170a]

Contrary to popular belief, there is a purpose for warning shots. When I was in the USAF, we were authorized to fire warning shots at overseas bases when the local nationals did not understand the commands we were giving them, in English or in the local language. This was the only situation in which they were authorized, and we were responsible for every round that went downrange.

In this country, I don't think warning shots are a good idea, legally or morally. YMMV, IANAL.

 

[.cheese.]

sacp - you're a special case. Whatever you were trained to do while in the USAF there is no way in heck I could ever argue with. That group knows what they're teaching, that's for sure.

As for the purpose of this post? That's a somewhat surprising question. Don't you guys ever read "gun stories" or the "It happened to me" gun-rag style stories posted on forums?

I do. I've seen mention of firing a warning shot several times now. Not necessarily on THR - but on the net. Uusually it will involve somebody who is hesitant about shooting somebody else, despite the situation escalating out of hand and legal use of force is presented. The person thinks, "Maybe if I show them I'm not kidding around here, they'll get the point and calm down." - so they fire a warning shot. That's the basic most distilled version of the whoe thing I could come up.... usually it's much more complex. The problem is that in the heat of the moment, the person forgets one of the fundamental rules of firearm safety - "Check your backstop and everything inbetween." - because often times it's night - it's not physically possible to do. People assume the woods are empty..... etc etc. You never know for sure, so warning shots are just stray bullets waiting to hit an innocent bystander.

Furthermore, as somebody mentioned, the moment your gun gets drawn, you've escalated the situation. If it was already escalated - oh well...... but not it's additionally escalated - so you have to think fast. A warning shot could very well just get you killed instead. So once again - in the civilian world (to exempt former USAF), warning shots are a bad idea.

I just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page in regards to this topic.

No - I have no intent to flame people. I just am making sure that perhaps newbs who might not know better (or maybe they do), don't make a mistake. Remember, what might seem totally obvious to you, might not to a new gun-owner or new CCW'er. There's never any harm in making sure proper information gets around. Otherwise I'd hate to see people take advice on how to use firearms from these police-drama TV shows.

Remember folks:
We're all gun-owners, and we're all in this together (contrary to what many think). For us to be a respected group, we have to be a responsible group.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Anytime someone says you should do anything ALWAYS or NEVER;

Question the statement.

 

[critter]

A warning shot means "I MISSED!" and more are to follow IMMEDIATAELY.

 

[whited]

.

Anytime someone says you should do anything ALWAYS or NEVER;

Question the statement.

+1

While I believe in absolutes, this case is clearly not one of them.

 

[Daemon688]

Warning shots are going to put you in legal trouble. What's the point of a warning shot? If they're still advancing at me when my gun is drawn and pointed at them, they're obviously resolved to do me harm. If they turn and run the moment I draw my gun then I won't shoot them.

 

[Trip20]

I just want to post this to make sure everybody is clear on this concept.

The "warning shots" topic is one of many dead horses, roaming this and other similar forums, who's treated to a flogging every now and then.

 

[Headless]

Lonestar49 - it's highly likely the blank load will not cycle your gun (at least not consistently) as it's generally much lower pressures than a real round...my 9mm won't cycle blanks and it also won't cycle shot shells. In fact, shot shells usually jam halfway out of the slide forcing me to double rack to fix...I would not rely on a blank round to cycle consistently and rely on that for defense of my life. Training yourself to expect that kind of safety leads to danger later on, too, when you switch up and put a real one in. You should train yourself from the beginning to KNOW there is always a round in the chamber.

 

[hrgrisso]

Warning Shot Bad

When I took my CCW they instructor told us that if we had time to fire a warning shot, our lives weren't in danger enough to justify shooting in the first place.

Just a thought.

 

[Alan Fud]

edit: oh and fyi, lonestar, if you fire a blank it's not going to cycle your slide, so your 9 rounds aren't going anywhere.

Lonestar49 - it's highly likely the blank load will not cycle your gun (at least not consistently) as it's generally much lower pressures than a real round...my 9mm won't cycle blanks and it also won't cycle shot shells. In fact, shot shells usually jam halfway out of the slide forcing me to double rack to fix...I would not rely on a blank round to cycle consistently and rely on that for defense of my life. Training yourself to expect that kind of safety leads to danger later on, too, when you switch up and put a real one in. You should train yourself from the beginning to KNOW there is always a round in the chamber.

That is incorrect. I have fired blanks which DO cycle the slide. I am NOT saying to load a blank in your defensive firearm -- just that the blanks that I have used have cycled the slide.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Thanks EF, and all the others, as this is an education for me one way or another. I suppose it will come down to finding out if the blanks I ordered will indeed, cycle the guns, and with 50 rounds per box, I think I can come to an educated conclusion.

Meaning no disrespect to either side of the argument, this reminds me of:

Wyatt Earp.. "this is trouble we don't need"

Doc Holiday.. "play for blood, that's just my game"

Cowboys.. "you got a fight coming, coming today" (what I'm trying to avoid)

(all from the movie: Tombstone)



LS

 

[Mountain Pass]

My wife and I were living in a rural section of our rather large county about 5 years ago. We had just moved in. Three day later a stationwagen full of Mexican came up the drive. I saw them coming and wasnt expecting company so I went out to see who it was. I saw who was in the car and they looked nervous and up to no good. I dont have any Mexican friends. I went in the house and retrieved a pistol (ruger 44 Mag) and told the wife to get on the phone. Two in the front did exit their vehicle, heading to the steps at me, and the three in the rear were fummbling w/ what looked like a a compact shot gun as they attempted to get out too..I told them to leave and they didnt act liked the cared what I was saying ..two continued walking towards the house while the others continued to fummble ...The driver turned and yelled something to the three like they werent going fast enough (i cought a few words)..Knwoing what was going down, I put a round through thier front end as a "warning shot" that took out a head light and the radiator..They got in that car and were back down my driveway before i could re-cock the hammer for a second shot. The wife called the State Police and they picked them up broke down a few miles up the road. They did indeed have a gun and had invaded a home on the other end of the county an hour before they decided to hit ours..

So yes, a warning shot has its place and is a option in some cases..But terrain and situation dictate tactics just like on a battle field. I was forunate to have the time to fire a warning shot. Im in no hurry to kill anyone and I certainly dont want have that legal headache hanging over me. You can still be in the right and get some DA that wants to make a statemant and drag you life thorugh the mud to do it. Right or wrong thats how the system is.

I agree w/ the statesment about the ABSOLUTE STATEMENT..There is no place for them in situations where nothing is absolute.

 

[Snowdiver]

A warning shot means "I MISSED!" and more are to follow IMMEDIATELY.

I agree with this.

 

[Lonestar49]

...

Not to stir the pot, but to put into play, one small problem with that testimony, "I missed".

Again, living in a large, crowded city, and any incident that involves use of, brandishing of, etc., is gonna be investigated by the Local PD, if one is on legal defence grounds but, in that statement, what if, some person watering his lawn, walking their dog, sitting on the couch with family, got hit. Before the dust settles in your case, distance from where you missed, the projection of the bullet, if a warning shot, live round, comes down, and enters and hits, can be proven, and with that, type caliber gun, time of incident, and distance from where your incident and time it all took place. Last step is they match the bullet to your barrel.

Ballistics is a fine art/science, and it will tell if a bullet came out of high orbit, or a high over-head high arch, if it lands some 3 streets, or some distance from where you made the missed warning shot. As opposed to a more straight shot at a person who moved, or was moving, and the miss/called a warning shot, you will have to own-up to where that goes and what it does.

It's just not that easy to dismiss it as a missed shot, and you're gonna have to account for shots heard, where you were aiming, where they went, etc.

I'm still not comfortable personally, with firing a live warning shot, a blank, that will cycle the gun, yes, that right now, is where my choice would go.

I respect each persons right to choose how to carry and react, we have no arguments there.

In fact, I have no argument with any of the discussion being put out on the table in this matter.

An informed, educational, choice is one's best choice, that each one has to live, or die, with, in our imperfect world.


Again, IMHO



LS

 

[g5reality]

Mountain Pass, you didn't fire a warning shot you actually shot the car. A warning shot is on into the air. You pointed the gun at them in teh car and fired. Tha's a shot not a warning. You hit the headlight and the radiator. Good for you. Smart to have called the police and good job in helping to apprehend a bunch of criminals. Were they legal?

 

[Mountain Pass]

Well, i guess thats a matter of opinion..In my mind it was a warning and it worked. They got the message and they got out of there fast. As far as I remember, yes they were illegal.

Indeed calling the police says the shot was a last resort for as situation in decay.

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

NO WARNING SHOTS - EVER.

"EVER", huh? I dissagree...
I plan on hiking and carrying my .40 this summer. I purchased some 'wilderness-specific' ammo, but I still think a 40 is underpowered if I'm ever faced with a Grizzly. Because of that, if I had enough distance between myself and a charging bear, I can see a definite use for a warning shot. Of course it would be into the ground!! I think that if a bear hears the roar of a gun and does not feel pain, it might be turned away from the attack.

Forget about bears then, how about cougars? Stampeding cattle? If you think I'm being ridiculous, you are the bunch who used the absolute terms.


The one thing I totally agree with so far in this thread:

Anytime someone says you should do anything ALWAYS or NEVER;

Question the statement.