Firing warning shots
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I feel as strongly as you do about aiming a gun at someone in warning.
I'm of the school don't take it out unless you shoot. I'm comfortable with Anyone who is experienced and knowes the score to decide for themselves.
I've actually broken my own rule. I'm not going to think up senerious, although i love doing it. Actually i've already thought up senerious. I'm going to save them. Most rules don't work in every case.
Although I do know one rul never never never fire a warning shot with a musket.
then again if there was alot of distance and you had a bunch of muskets .....
I'm of the school don't take it out unless you shoot. I'm comfortable with Anyone who is experienced and knowes the score to decide for themselves.
I've actually broken my own rule. I'm not going to think up senerious, although i love doing it. Actually i've already thought up senerious. I'm going to save them. Most rules don't work in every case.
Although I do know one rul never never never fire a warning shot with a musket.
then again if there was alot of distance and you had a bunch of muskets .....
You think a warning shot will get you into legal trouble, what do you think shooting someone, justified or not will get you?
You may not be in a crowded city. You may not be facing a stone cold killer. You may be facing a person or persons under the influence where the sound of a shot will bring them to their senses. You may be in a situation where conditions of lighting or terrain don’t allow the aggressor to see your gun.
You do have an obligation both legally and morally to use the minimum necessary force to defend yourself. Your pistol is not a Samaria sword, it can be pulled without having to draw blood and when a warning shot can be made safely to defuse a situation it should be used. A warning shot is a situational tactic not something to "always do" or "never do".
Some of the replies are legit here.
I mean, I suppose if you truly are in the middle of nowhere and you know there's nobdoy around (nothing for the stray-bullet to hit)... .that's one thing.
When I posted my original post, I was thinking more around the lines of suburban or urban areas (whcih is where I've spent my whole life). Under those circumstances, warning shots seem very unwise and dangerous. If you shoot outwards, you could hit somebody unintentionally, same if you shoot upwards (Newton was certainly on to something), and if you shoot downards, depending upon the situation, you could ricochet off a concrete sidewalk, or if it's soft ground, there could be cement buried underneath which I'd imagine could react oddly, or there could be a fiber-optic cable or power-cable buried that you hit (and then you're going to have to pay to fix it I bet).
I'm of the opinion that there is only one time you should ever fire your gun - and that is when it is meant to hit the person attacking you.
I guess that's my opinion. I'm by no means an expert.
I mean, I suppose if you truly are in the middle of nowhere and you know there's nobdoy around (nothing for the stray-bullet to hit)... .that's one thing.
When I posted my original post, I was thinking more around the lines of suburban or urban areas (whcih is where I've spent my whole life). Under those circumstances, warning shots seem very unwise and dangerous. If you shoot outwards, you could hit somebody unintentionally, same if you shoot upwards (Newton was certainly on to something), and if you shoot downards, depending upon the situation, you could ricochet off a concrete sidewalk, or if it's soft ground, there could be cement buried underneath which I'd imagine could react oddly, or there could be a fiber-optic cable or power-cable buried that you hit (and then you're going to have to pay to fix it I bet).
I'm of the opinion that there is only one time you should ever fire your gun - and that is when it is meant to hit the person attacking you.
I guess that's my opinion. I'm by no means an expert.
SteveC - this is true. Not all usages of a gun involve just shooting somebody.
In fact I had a situation come up this morning around those lines. I wont' go into them here, but sufficeit to say it involved road rage and a guy deciding that because my car touched his pickup (just touched - no damage or scratches came of it) - he flipped and eventually got a baseball bat out of his (beaten up old pickup truck) and explained how was was going to "mess me up".
No shots fired, and I didn't even have to draw.... but it did stop the attack.
(there are some people with serious temper problems out there - sheesh)
I always called him "sir"
and he referred to me as "retard" "idiot" and 'boy"
even when he pulled out the bat and started walking towards me saying he was going to mess me up (and I'm hoping that somebody is calling the cops b/c this was at a major intersectio), I'm still trying to verbally subdue the situation. "Sir, I think that what you are doing is very unwise and you should reconsider quickly." - and I'm backing up as I'm saying this. As he continued approaching me, I lifed my shirt to show that I was armed, keeping my hand near the grip just in case, and said, "Sir, you need to discontinue your current course of action immediately."
Then he put the bat back in his truck said, "You lucked out this time." and drove off.
Man oh man do some people need anger management courses.
but anyways - this is OT
my main point here was that if you have to fire a shot, it should optimally be done when absolutely necessary to shoot somebody. There are other ways to deal with situations like drunkards (OC, etc) - not to mention, it's a good idea to stay away from bars when armed.... and certainly a bad ide (in my opinion) to on into one while armed.
On a last note - today was my first time ever actually having to use (in some way) my gun in a real situation. I think I handled it well, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get reamed by plenty of THR members who thnk I did something wrong (that's ok btw - the whole point of sharing ideas on a forum is to learn).
In fact I had a situation come up this morning around those lines. I wont' go into them here, but sufficeit to say it involved road rage and a guy deciding that because my car touched his pickup (just touched - no damage or scratches came of it) - he flipped and eventually got a baseball bat out of his (beaten up old pickup truck) and explained how was was going to "mess me up".
No shots fired, and I didn't even have to draw.... but it did stop the attack.
(there are some people with serious temper problems out there - sheesh)
I always called him "sir"
and he referred to me as "retard" "idiot" and 'boy"
even when he pulled out the bat and started walking towards me saying he was going to mess me up (and I'm hoping that somebody is calling the cops b/c this was at a major intersectio), I'm still trying to verbally subdue the situation. "Sir, I think that what you are doing is very unwise and you should reconsider quickly." - and I'm backing up as I'm saying this. As he continued approaching me, I lifed my shirt to show that I was armed, keeping my hand near the grip just in case, and said, "Sir, you need to discontinue your current course of action immediately."
Then he put the bat back in his truck said, "You lucked out this time." and drove off.
Man oh man do some people need anger management courses.
but anyways - this is OT
my main point here was that if you have to fire a shot, it should optimally be done when absolutely necessary to shoot somebody. There are other ways to deal with situations like drunkards (OC, etc) - not to mention, it's a good idea to stay away from bars when armed.... and certainly a bad ide (in my opinion) to on into one while armed.
On a last note - today was my first time ever actually having to use (in some way) my gun in a real situation. I think I handled it well, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to get reamed by plenty of THR members who thnk I did something wrong (that's ok btw - the whole point of sharing ideas on a forum is to learn).
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daysleeprx
Member
You should make this disclaimer in your initial post then.
I'm with TexasSigMan on this one.
ShooterMcGavin
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Then:
"EVER"??
I'm rolling my eyes as you backpedal
My wife and I are armed. We have two beautiful children. We love the kids and we love each other. Any "situation" that deserves to have a gun pointed at it is a threat to me and mine. Warning shot? Are you kidding? Blanks? I love my people way, way, way too much for that kind of risk. If I have to point a gun at someone... one of us (me or the BG) is probably going to die in a few seconds. The legal ramifications of that mean absolutely nothing to me. Let the cops and the prosecutor do their best. If my family survives the intrusion I'll sleep like a baby, whether it's in my bed or in a cell.
ShooterMcGavin -
Relax. This is a forum. I apologize for not listing the few exceptions that may exist.
The only point I was trying to make was that I read stories around the lines of, "So this guy come up to me drunk and wants to start a fight..... (and for purposes of the story let's add this.) he had a knife.... or a smashed beer bottle.... so I pull out my gun and tell him to stop or I'll shoot. He keeps coming towards me, so I fire a shot purposefully missing (warning shot)......" and the story goes on from there.
I just wanted to point out that I read this too often and worry that under such circumstances, can you really be sure of your backstop, or what's in the area where you shot? Especially at night.
I'm just trying to make sure that nobody gets the wrong impression from stories such as those that it is proper procedure to fire a warning shot - and especially where I live, the chances of that stray bullet hiting somebody is uncomfortably high.
If you guys want to try to claim I'm backpedaling - fine... whatever.... a lot of you take threads too seriously and literally.... my point is one of comon sense that I wanted to make sure we're all on the same page.
In fact, given some of the responses here, I'm going to add a sig to take care of this.
Relax. This is a forum. I apologize for not listing the few exceptions that may exist.
The only point I was trying to make was that I read stories around the lines of, "So this guy come up to me drunk and wants to start a fight..... (and for purposes of the story let's add this.) he had a knife.... or a smashed beer bottle.... so I pull out my gun and tell him to stop or I'll shoot. He keeps coming towards me, so I fire a shot purposefully missing (warning shot)......" and the story goes on from there.
I just wanted to point out that I read this too often and worry that under such circumstances, can you really be sure of your backstop, or what's in the area where you shot? Especially at night.
I'm just trying to make sure that nobody gets the wrong impression from stories such as those that it is proper procedure to fire a warning shot - and especially where I live, the chances of that stray bullet hiting somebody is uncomfortably high.
If you guys want to try to claim I'm backpedaling - fine... whatever.... a lot of you take threads too seriously and literally.... my point is one of comon sense that I wanted to make sure we're all on the same page.
In fact, given some of the responses here, I'm going to add a sig to take care of this.
daysleeprx
Member
I should hope so...it's illegal (at least where I live) to carry in a place that brings in >51% of its income via alcohol.
Your point is made...but by the same token, any responsible gun owner (and especially those that have CCW permits) should know these sorts of things already. Heck, even common sense says that if you have to draw on someone, you should be prepared to shoot them, correct?
Dead horse IMHO.
XavierBreath
Member
The reason I don't plan on firing "warning shots" is simple.
I carry a gun to defend my life. That gun stays concealed until I make the quick determination that my life is in jeopardy. When my life is in jeopardy, "warning shots" are neither desirable, nor necessary. In fact, "warning shots" seriously deplete my ammunition, making it less likely that I will sucessfully defend my life. "Warning shots" rely on criminal conversion to work. They depend on the intelligence, fear, and benevolence of an attacker who is demonstrating none of those traits. If the appearance of a firearm does not change the dynamics of the encounter, it is highly unlikely a bit of noise will either.
To me, a carry gun is more than a noisemaker. To me, defending one's life is more than a series of attempts to see what will work. Facing imminent death is different from facing a computer screen, or winning an argument through a series of escalations towards violence. When another person is intent on killing you, the stakes are very high, and the odds are already against your survival. He has the initiative, and you are in defensive mode. Unless you turn that around, you will die. Shooting lead in the ground at your feet doesn't change those facts one bit.
Others may believe differently. That is their perogative. There are some of us who will die because of our decisions and beliefs regarding our carry guns. Thus, it is imperative that each person make up his own mind. I post my beliefs here simply for others to consider, not as dogma to be followed blindly. I do not like absolutes either. I do, however, believe in having a few precepts to guide me, with the freedom to abandon them as required by the situation at hand.
FWIW, I would like to commend the participants of this thread for staying on the high road.
I carry a gun to defend my life. That gun stays concealed until I make the quick determination that my life is in jeopardy. When my life is in jeopardy, "warning shots" are neither desirable, nor necessary. In fact, "warning shots" seriously deplete my ammunition, making it less likely that I will sucessfully defend my life. "Warning shots" rely on criminal conversion to work. They depend on the intelligence, fear, and benevolence of an attacker who is demonstrating none of those traits. If the appearance of a firearm does not change the dynamics of the encounter, it is highly unlikely a bit of noise will either.
To me, a carry gun is more than a noisemaker. To me, defending one's life is more than a series of attempts to see what will work. Facing imminent death is different from facing a computer screen, or winning an argument through a series of escalations towards violence. When another person is intent on killing you, the stakes are very high, and the odds are already against your survival. He has the initiative, and you are in defensive mode. Unless you turn that around, you will die. Shooting lead in the ground at your feet doesn't change those facts one bit.
Others may believe differently. That is their perogative. There are some of us who will die because of our decisions and beliefs regarding our carry guns. Thus, it is imperative that each person make up his own mind. I post my beliefs here simply for others to consider, not as dogma to be followed blindly. I do not like absolutes either. I do, however, believe in having a few precepts to guide me, with the freedom to abandon them as required by the situation at hand.
FWIW, I would like to commend the participants of this thread for staying on the high road.
glocktoberfest
member
why not just load the mag full of blanks and scare the BG to death ??
XavierBreath
Member
On blanks
I'll go a bit farther on the subject of blanks, and why I object to them.
The idea behind a "blank" or "birdshot' or "rocksalt" as a first round is the mistaken idea that a less lethal round will diminish the consequences of pulling the trigger or of producing a gun. The legal reality is the presentation of a firearm is considered to be lethal force whether the gun is loaded or not. Thus, the less lethal first round does not diminish legal consequences.
More importantly, the mistaken belief in reduced consequences may make it more likely that a gun will be pulled by the man with a blank in the chamber. Many people believe a gun is some magic talisman against evil, twarting all evildoers by it's mere appearance. The "warning shot" crowd by definition believe in criminal conversion through the appearance and noise of a firearm.
In reality, when you produce a firearm, there is a high likelihood the criminal will stand his ground, taunting you to use it. There is the likelihood he will not stop his attack at all. He knows through experience that success depends on mindset and tactics, not equipment. He does not fear your gun at all. He fears what you may do with your gun. As soon as you fire one shot that does not penetrate his body, you have demonstrated you do not have the resolve to defend yourself to the death. You just emboldened your attacker, making it less likely you will survive. Is that what you really want to do when your life is on the line?
Again, my two pesos.
I'll go a bit farther on the subject of blanks, and why I object to them.
The idea behind a "blank" or "birdshot' or "rocksalt" as a first round is the mistaken idea that a less lethal round will diminish the consequences of pulling the trigger or of producing a gun. The legal reality is the presentation of a firearm is considered to be lethal force whether the gun is loaded or not. Thus, the less lethal first round does not diminish legal consequences.
More importantly, the mistaken belief in reduced consequences may make it more likely that a gun will be pulled by the man with a blank in the chamber. Many people believe a gun is some magic talisman against evil, twarting all evildoers by it's mere appearance. The "warning shot" crowd by definition believe in criminal conversion through the appearance and noise of a firearm.
In reality, when you produce a firearm, there is a high likelihood the criminal will stand his ground, taunting you to use it. There is the likelihood he will not stop his attack at all. He knows through experience that success depends on mindset and tactics, not equipment. He does not fear your gun at all. He fears what you may do with your gun. As soon as you fire one shot that does not penetrate his body, you have demonstrated you do not have the resolve to defend yourself to the death. You just emboldened your attacker, making it less likely you will survive. Is that what you really want to do when your life is on the line?
Again, my two pesos.
sacp81170a
Member
Economist, I know that's a special case, I just wanted to point out that when someone says "NEVER" that they treading on thin ice. Having an official, black and white policy that's in effect at every installation worldwide (whether they are allowed or not) means that the USAF considers warning shots worthy of consideration. That means that they're not ruled out entirely, just that the use of warning shots should be considered very carefully according to the tactical situation. Most times, they aren't a good idea. Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, a warning shot means a shot fired straight up into the air or into soft ground, not in someone's general direction, as that endangers whoever or whatever is beyond the intended target. ("Try not to shoot at the nuclear weapons," I believe is how John Travolta put it in Broken Arrow.)
sgt_richter
Member
i prefer
i prefer aiming at the base of the throat inside 400 meters it keeps your bullet in an instant kill box. at mid to long range though you kind of have to go center mass just in case. much better to wound the dude than deal with the tauntings of missing one.
i prefer aiming at the base of the throat inside 400 meters it keeps your bullet in an instant kill box. at mid to long range though you kind of have to go center mass just in case. much better to wound the dude than deal with the tauntings of missing one.
sgt_richter
Member
duh
.
.
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plexreticle
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Many times in the military a warning shot is required.
A warning shot is the universal language. I think it's a bad practice in general.
A warning shot is the universal language. I think it's a bad practice in general.
Kimber1911_06238
Member
warning shots? wow...warning shots tend to hit things you don't want them to...like innocent people
sgt_richter
Member
hmm
in the military we only fire warning shots if the target is unarmed and hasnt showed hostile intent. ie a car approaching to close to a convoy.
in the military we only fire warning shots if the target is unarmed and hasnt showed hostile intent. ie a car approaching to close to a convoy.
plexreticle
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Right, warning shot.
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