First batch of BP is in the ball mill

[zxcvbob]

I'm reloading my own ammo, casting my own bullets, I decided it was time to try making my own usable gunpowder (mostly just to see if I could do it.)

I made the charcoal last night out of cedar. I don't have any willow, and in the revolutionary war they used white cedar for the charcoal. My charcoal was amazingly light when I was finished with it. Much lighter than the oak lump charcoal I used sometimes for grilling. You wouldn't believe how messy it was crushing the stuff because the dust just floated in the air.

I used Gordon's stump remover for the KNO3, and Hi-Yield brand garden dusting sulfur. I'm a little concerned that the sulfur is not pure enough, but I had these already. To make about a half a pound of BP:

175 grams prilled KNO3
35 grams willow, alder, grapevine, or softwood charcoal
25 grams garden sulfur

It's a little sulfur-rich to compensate for impurities in the sulfur I used. Also, the old ratio for BP for bursting charges had 11% sulfur rather than the usual 10%. (I might should have added even more S.)

Everything is in an old rock tumbler with a rubber drum and it's been tumbling out in the garage for about an hour. I put in a handful of .457 lead balls cast from wheel weights and water quenched to make them hard. It's about time to go check on it and see if it has compacted enough that I can add some more lead balls.

I don't have a hydraulic press, so instead of making a puck and crushing and screening it, I'm going to dampen the meal dust and knead it into a clay and press it through a screen. Then let it dry for a day or two. Eventually I'll use it in my Ruger Old Army and to load .45 Colt cartridges.

 

[dwave]

Let us know how it works. I am interested in knowing if the sub. sulfur will work well.

 

[zxcvbob]

I added too much water when I went to screen it. I made a pliable dough, like modeling clay, and it globs up out of screen. I guess I should have made a crumbly dough that wouldn't really hold together. I'm making another half pound of powder to add to this (I really wanted a whole pound anyway.)

Stay tuned.

 

[scrat]

im waiting. i really cant wait to hear the outcome of this. we need pic of this.

 

[JCT]

Sounds like the cedar will work well. Willow is very light when cooked.
Garden sulfur has too much silicates in it from what I've heard, it may or may not work. There's a chance it'll slow the BP considerably.
I buy all my KNO3 and Sulfur from Phil Summers, here http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/cart/in...72_119&zenid=2b6f914db7dcea02e513827a1a4f4a84

He's a great guy to deal with and very honest and friendly too.

Also, when you're wetting the BP, use rubbing alcohol and water to allow it to wet easily and to dry out fast. Don't dry BP in the sun, it's less powerful when overdried. A touch of moisture helps ignition and gas output. I dry it inside for 12 hours and it's always great powder.
It's always a good idea when wetting the BP, to not use all your dry BP at
once, then you'll have nothing left to fix it if you added too much water!
• Attached is a pic of a batch of my powder drying after being screened.

 

[AnthonyC.]

Dont you think that you should try to burn some before you shove six loads into a bp gun and have six stuck loads in the revolver?

 

[Dithsoer]

Believe it or not, but black powder wetted with urine instead of water produces a faster-burning product. I've found this referenced several times in 19th century books, manuals and encyclopedias concerning the manufacture of b.p.

 

[JCT]

Well, of course burning some first is a good idea, I always do. But, you can't screw it up much unless you used the wrong chems. Even slow, weak, poorly made BP will function in a gun, because of the pressure build.
Wetting in general allows the KNO3 to soak into the charcoal a bit. It's notably better BP when you wet it after milling, rather than solely dry pressing. I think, the absolute best BP possible would be, with the high purity chems, willow or Alder charcoal, wet and screened, then pressed to 1.7g density. That'd most likely put even swiss BP to shame.

 

[zxcvbob]

Dont you think that you should try to burn some before you shove six loads into a bp gun and have six stuck loads in the revolver?

I'm gonna load .45 Colt cartridges with it before I try it in my ROA. In fact I will probably use most of it in cartridges. (I wasn't sure whether to post this in the Blackpowder forum or the Reloading forum) But I also plan to try burning a small amount when my wife is not home (she's always home) just to make sure it works.

I used about 2/3 water and 1/3 70% rubbing alcohol to wet it.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Believe it or not, but black powder wetted with urine instead of water produces a faster-burning product. I've found this referenced several times in 19th century books, manuals and encyclopedias concerning the manufacture of b.p.

During the American Civil War, the South asked its people to collect their urine and save it for the war effort. Saltpeter was extracted from the urine to make blackpowder.

During the American Revolution, leaflets were distributed with instructions on how to make black powder. The shortage of powder during the first year compelled such measures to ensure that powder demands for the war was met. However, results were not consistent and thankfully France gave the flegdling nation some good stuff.

 

[zxcvbob]

My powder is all screened and drying now -- divided between 2 disposable pie pans and sitting on top of the upright freezer where the cat can't get in it. It looks exactly like JCT's picture (the powder, not the cat), same shade of black and everything. I'll transfer it to a peanut butter jar tomorrow.

For the second 1/2 batch, I put all the charcoal and all the balls in the mill first and gave them a head start. After half an hour, there was a lot more room and I added the sulfur and the saltpeter.

 

[Macmac]

Well try it.......!!!!!!!

 

[mec]

black powder wetted with urine instead of water produces a faster-burning product

Back around and after the battle of Creacy, they mixed the chemicals in the field. It was customary to use Priest's Urine so as to sanctify the mix but if there weren't any priests around with full bladders, anybody could contribute.

 

[4v50 Gary]

First its the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. Now it's the Sacred Pisspot of Palestine!

 

[zxcvbob]

I put a generous pinch of the powder in a square of toilet paper and rolled it up loosely, and put it in the wood stove. It flashed pretty well. I don't have anything to compare it with (I guess I could dig out that can of Pyrodex) but it certainly looks usable. I'm going to load a few .45 cartridges and see what happens. This is lower density than commercial BP, so that means it should be more compressable. I'm gonna try filling the cases all the way to the top and then seating a 230 or 250 grain bullet. I don't have any appropriate bullet lube, so I'll probably use the 230 grain Lee tumble lube bullets lubed with Alox, then dip the noses of the finished cartridges in tallow or goose grease. (seriously, I have a bunch of goose grease in the freezer) Or do you think the 250's lubed with Lymans black moly lube would be better?

It probably doesn't matter; I'm only going to load about a dozen rounds to test. Mostly I'll be shooting smokeless loads that day.

 

[Duncaninfrance]

Interesting Post

Good luck with the trial but DO be careful!

 

[Macmac]

Bob, What does "prilled" mean it isn't in my dictionary?

I plan to hit up the local garden centers to see if they have this stuff.

 

[zxcvbob]

Sorry, "prilled" sort of means pelletized, but it's more specialized than that. They form hygroscopic chemicals into little balls (maybe coated with clay or something for *very* hygroscopic) to keep them from clumping. Have you ever seen ammonium nitrate fertilizer? That is always prilled.

I ran out of Gordons stump remover and switched to Green Light. It was crushed already. The Green Light stump remover seems to work just as well as the Gordons.

BTW, if there is an agricultural supply store, especially if they cater to golf courses, they will have Potassium Nitrate in 50 pound bags -- probably less than $20 per bag. Get the "spray grade" if you can find it, but prilled will work. It should have an analysis of 13-0-37 or 13-0-44 (depending on whether they express the potash as K or K2O, respectively).

One warning: do you remember that old guy that got busted a few months ago for having a tunnel under his garage and a vast arsenal of scary weapons and a "million" rounds of ammunition? The only thing technically illegal that the feds busted him for was that he had too much black powder without a proper storage magazine or permits or something (I think he had 75 pounds of powder, but as inaccurate as all the other reporting was, that could have been 75 pounds total BP and smokeless.) I do not recommend buying 50 or 100 pounds of KNO3 and converting it all into BP and storing it that way. Store the components and mix small amounts as needed.

 

[Macmac]

Thank you... Bob. I believe GOEX uses graphite as a coating like you discribe for the clumping. My take is a coating of something prevemts clumping, or reduces it. The few times I have seen that happen is storing powder in a horn for a longer time than I might like.

I am not familar with fertilizers at all, even though I garden. So far I have never used bug, weed killers, and or fertilizer from stores. So, No and this is partly why I have no idea to many items mentioned which seem to me like everyone takes it for granted.

I never heard the tale about the guy with the tunnel ever... I don't want anything like 50 pounds of black powder made up at any time either.

I shoot a little .40 long rifle, a .62 Nor West Gun, a Bess apx 75 cal, a couple of .44 's Ruger OA and a Colt clone, and last a smaller bronze swivel gun once I get it all set up.

Most of my shooting is local, at events for NMLRA Rondee Vouse, and lots of blanks at Fort #4 in NH, Ft Ticonderoga in NY, and a few other little local events in NH, Me, Vt, maybe Ny and Pa.

My main interests are F&I and Fur Trade.

So I only want to feed these guns for events, re-enactment, and hunting. I store what little I keep in coolers in an out building, and I don't keep much.

The pricing when I began was apx 4 bucks a pound, and not worth the bother to even learn how to.. Now it is closer to 12 dollars plus, with a long drive to Kittery Maine, and last a long time goal coming true only because I tripped over this site.

I had a dorry set up for F&I, so I bought the bronze gun.. I sold the boat, but kept the gun. When I sold the boat I had salvaged apx 150 pounds of pure lead as a ballast, and that didn't go with the boat, because the new owner told me the boat didn't need any ballast. I guess he knows more about boats than me, but I got my lead anyway.

That little gun has a bore apx 7/8" almost 15/16", and will be expensive to feed, if only at events for the public. I believe it will get (8) 1/8th pound blanks which are larger than normal loads to hear a boom.

When I use a Bess I use 110 grains of Goex FFg and it still goes woooofh, because we are not allowed to use ram rods and wads.

The goal was learn as many 18th century skills as I can.... back then each skill would be preformed by a specialist like things are now, but I just like being able to handle most of them like a Jack Of All trades, and so I do.

Right now I can, but maybe don't do all of these, but can sew to dress myself and my wife in garb of the above dates from head to toe. So I tan hides, and make sewn items, I do wood working with powder tools to real 18th century tools I have come by. I work in unknown steels to make other items related to then, like kitchen devices, blanket pins, tongs, and blades.

I made a few flinter pistols from shop junk, and still have one. I work in horn, for powder horns and rum horns and other assorted items from this.

Ho Ho Ho, once I made a fish and hide glue in a modern pyrex dish and failed to rinse the dish clean.. That glue grabbed the glass some wicked hard and pulled a chip from the corner. I was sewwing with sinnew then, making arrows.

With the swivel gun at a 2 day event if the gun gets fired for 3 pounds worth it would be alot. With the Bess I tend to use apx 120 paper catridge blanks in 2 days @ 110 grains.

I use more blanks than anything else. At the other events where a shot is really fired at a target I might shoot only 20 shots in a day, and at home I don't shoot much over 50 shots in any given day..

So if the Feds come here, they better be prepared to leave very board.

NEXT QUESTION: I read hear and perhaps misunderstand that home made powder is lighter than GOEX, which is th only powder I am familar with.

I am confused in figuring out for example what is the home made equivilent to a 40 grain charge of Goex FFg. I have a brass adjustable measure, with which I use to create deer antler measures which are fixed.

WHAT DOES this mean?

"It should have an analysis of 13-0-37 or 13-0-44 (depending on whether they express the potash as K or K2O, respectively)."

I am taking notes on paper no less... Outta be good for a laugh huh?

 

[armoredman]

I am impressed, sir, good project. Would love to see some pics of the swivel gun fired!

 

[Jim Watson]

"It should have an analysis of 13-0-37 or 13-0-44 (depending on whether they express the potash as K or K2O, respectively)."

Fertilizer is described by its "plant food" content in a standard three-number format. The first number is nitrogen, expressed as percent by weight of elemental nitrogen, N.
The second is phosphate, expressed as percent by weight of phosphorus pentoxide, P2O5.
The third is potash, expressed as percent by weight of potassium oxide, K20.
(When I was working in fertilizer R&D in the 1960s and '70s, I did not see anything figured on percent potassium.)
These are NOT the compounds actually occuring in the fertilizer, it is just a convention based on manufacturing methods and analytical techniques.

So potassium nitrate, KNO3, figures out to 13% nitrogen, no phosphate, and 44% potash; 13-0-44. If laboratory grade "reagent" material, more like 14-0-45.

 

[zxcvbob]

Jim, I agree with you but I have seen KNO3 sold as 13-0-37 or 13-0-38 at several fertilizer sellers that should probably know better.

 

[Jim Watson]

Maybe so, or maybe they are modernizing. I Googled an article that gave K content as an alternative to K2O. It took me a while to get used to fertilizer grading based on forms not actually found in the tank or bag. I did not see why you shouldn't just go by N, P, and K; but tradition held firm all the time I was in the field.

 

[scrat]

Going back to what macmac said. Goex around my neck of the woods is 16.00 a can. At the range it sells for 17.00 Not much of a difference. Then with my bp rifle using 100 grains a shot i can see the need to properly learn how to make bp.


SO question What method are you using to make the Carbon out of Cedar. i heard and read something about putting the wood in a steal can with a 1/4 inch hole on the top and keeping it there. What other methods are there.

 

[zxcvbob]

I used a tall skinny metal cookie tin, about the same size as a #6 can of Chef Boyardee ravoili. (I was gonna use a ravioli can and cover the top with heavy-duty aluminum foil, but then I found the old cookie tin and thought its steel lid would be better. I drilled about a 3/16" hole in the top (probably should be a little larger.) I packed it with chunks of cedar cut from a 1x6" picket, then put the can in the woodburning stove. Smoke and steam poured out the hole for a while, then it caught fire, and then when it went out I took it out of the stove to cool. I crushed the charcoal by hand, and the dust went *everywhere*.

A gallon paint can would hold a lot more wood at a time.

I made a second batch of charcoal and some of the wood in the center wasn't quite fully charred yet. I saved it for next time I cook some charcoal.

Hope this helps,
Bob