First batch of BP is in the ball mill
- Thread starter zxcvbob
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Macmac
Member
armoredman, The swivel is based on a early, and perhaps earlier 1720's pattern gun, with bands. The casting mould was made from a recovered gun dug up, but I don't know where. It weighs 42 pounds in bronze as it is now. It is apx 26" long over all. I have been dreaming in an evil way to bore it out to take golf balls., but am not sure that would be safe to fire and less so at range. hee hee hee...
Right now I am working up a oak navy carriage, after this a swivel yoke probably forged from a truck axel so the gun can be slipped in a yoke and driven into a tree stump with a pre drilled hole. After that if I can come by wheels apx 24" to 32" tall I would like to make a another carriage to be useable on land. All three mounts are correct for this little gun..
You can see 8 shots to a pound at 12 to the stated 17 bucks a pound of powder are enough to make a humble man cry... not to mention poor...
BOB, Jim, Since I am a KNOW NUTHIN, I still don't understand.. Can I burn these other things in with the powder and not make a mess of things? I guess so, but i really don't understand..
KISS Keep It Simple Stupid works for me, so please break this down more.. I am no chemist..
scrat SCRAT.... did that hoping to get your attention...
I make char cloth, and I also char shelf fungas off birch and real dead hemlock trees. I use these to "catch a spark" for flint and steel fire strikers.
I assume the process is the same EXCEPT for a few details, and is easy.
I will skip over making char cloth, but the tooling would be the same only smaller.
To make the char we need, get white cedar, spruce, white pine, willow, witch hazel, PROBABLY Cottonwood, Aspen, Poplar,Bass/Linden, Tammarack/Larch, Balsam as a guess since the woods in the first group are soft woods be they evergreens or not.
I read that the saw dust from projects can be swept up and used as well, and may be better, being that these are already more or less crushed and ground.
A 1 gallon paint can with a lid works prabaly best. If you use a large tin it mush have a tight fitting lid, and then it is probably a good idea to poke a pair holes so that a long wire can lock the lid in place.
The lids for either should have apx 3 holes spaced apx 120 degrees apart, and be in from the edge apx 1". A good way would be drive a roofing nail into the lids from the inside, so as to not distort the lid much and maybe file off the burrs.. Have 3 nails handy to plug these holes with.
With the wood of your choice, strip the bark. These woods can be more or less anything from 1" diameter to 3". Fill the can, seal the can, and build a fire like any camp fire.
Once you have a bed of coals like you would cook steak on place the can in the fire. Pretty soon you will see smoke come from the 3 holes.. Wait a bit to allow the smoke to be more jet like and if the smoke doesn't catch fire set it on fire on purpose.
In a little while the flames will flicker some, and begin to go out and, timing here is NOT critical. But this is more or less the time to get the can out of the fire.
With a shovel, or a long stick remove the can and STUFF NAILS in the holes, and walk away. DO NOT even think to touch that can for as long as it takes to cool so you can hold in in bare hands real easy, and it will stay hot awhile! Pliers could be handy.
Tell any kids to stay away!
I can't say if it will be 15 minutes or 30, but the idea is now to feel with the back side of your hand so mainly you don't burn the working part of you hand the can, go slow.. Feel with a few inches if air space a first.. Once you think you can pick up the can be sure you can hold it.. There is no hurry here what so ever, and you could wait years, but then you don't want to wait years do you?
IF you open that can too soon, and or the lid blows off you will cook off all the char and have white ashes.. White ashes are worthless.
Inspect the charred sticks, I suspect you think you can over cook these... You can't.. IF you see uniform black you have char... If you see shades of tan you haven't quite cooked it to be what we wamt here. If so cook it more.
EXPECT to see shrunken sticks. These will shrink shorter and thinner...
Another way if you live in a city is to dress down and look like a bum...
With a metal pail you make a refractory. That means you poke a 1/4"-3/8" holes in many places low on the pail , then set the pail on rocks/bricks, and build a fire in the pail. Then that same paint can goes in on the fire, and all the above happen. A bottle of MD 20-20 will be handy if you don't want Ol' Johnny Law botherin you while you play char monger...
Getting back to that tan colored char... That is usefull to a flint and steel fire starter but is off topic here. That tan is close but not char, so it will blaze to fire when things are done corrcect with no other tinder.
me: I am at a loss still as to the sulfer and the niter parts, but making carbon any fool can do, and I know, because 1, I am a fool, and 2, I make great carbon from all sorts of things..
The main problems are the can top can blow off, and wreck the work, hence 3 holes. A locking paint can helps here... If not a wire thru a cookie tin and the lid works as well.
Allowing air in too soon... Plug the holes with nails.
Not waiting for the tin to cool... You will never make that mistake twice..
Under done.. Not likely unless you want it under done and then Murphy's Rules apply..
GARY, Hey we be way down here Gary.... Me? Chrono? Ho Ho HO Me and new fangled wire thingymabobs are not a good mix... I have been at scheeming (sp) a powder tester like was had in the old days... I have no clue .....yet as to how about make one. This is a device to 'test" powda, and looks like a pistol, with a spring loaded brass gizzmo with a scale and pointer.
Now if there is any victim, err,,, shooter here with a chrono, and are willing to allow me to kill, err,,, maime,,, umm, no, test with it, and don't mind parts and pieces in haydee's.. Well then yer on...
Chances of that? :banghead:
Right now I am working up a oak navy carriage, after this a swivel yoke probably forged from a truck axel so the gun can be slipped in a yoke and driven into a tree stump with a pre drilled hole. After that if I can come by wheels apx 24" to 32" tall I would like to make a another carriage to be useable on land. All three mounts are correct for this little gun..
You can see 8 shots to a pound at 12 to the stated 17 bucks a pound of powder are enough to make a humble man cry... not to mention poor...
BOB, Jim, Since I am a KNOW NUTHIN, I still don't understand.. Can I burn these other things in with the powder and not make a mess of things? I guess so, but i really don't understand..
KISS Keep It Simple Stupid works for me, so please break this down more.. I am no chemist..
scrat SCRAT.... did that hoping to get your attention...
I make char cloth, and I also char shelf fungas off birch and real dead hemlock trees. I use these to "catch a spark" for flint and steel fire strikers.
I assume the process is the same EXCEPT for a few details, and is easy.
I will skip over making char cloth, but the tooling would be the same only smaller.
To make the char we need, get white cedar, spruce, white pine, willow, witch hazel, PROBABLY Cottonwood, Aspen, Poplar,Bass/Linden, Tammarack/Larch, Balsam as a guess since the woods in the first group are soft woods be they evergreens or not.
I read that the saw dust from projects can be swept up and used as well, and may be better, being that these are already more or less crushed and ground.
A 1 gallon paint can with a lid works prabaly best. If you use a large tin it mush have a tight fitting lid, and then it is probably a good idea to poke a pair holes so that a long wire can lock the lid in place.
The lids for either should have apx 3 holes spaced apx 120 degrees apart, and be in from the edge apx 1". A good way would be drive a roofing nail into the lids from the inside, so as to not distort the lid much and maybe file off the burrs.. Have 3 nails handy to plug these holes with.
With the wood of your choice, strip the bark. These woods can be more or less anything from 1" diameter to 3". Fill the can, seal the can, and build a fire like any camp fire.
Once you have a bed of coals like you would cook steak on place the can in the fire. Pretty soon you will see smoke come from the 3 holes.. Wait a bit to allow the smoke to be more jet like and if the smoke doesn't catch fire set it on fire on purpose.
In a little while the flames will flicker some, and begin to go out and, timing here is NOT critical. But this is more or less the time to get the can out of the fire.
With a shovel, or a long stick remove the can and STUFF NAILS in the holes, and walk away. DO NOT even think to touch that can for as long as it takes to cool so you can hold in in bare hands real easy, and it will stay hot awhile! Pliers could be handy.
Tell any kids to stay away!
I can't say if it will be 15 minutes or 30, but the idea is now to feel with the back side of your hand so mainly you don't burn the working part of you hand the can, go slow.. Feel with a few inches if air space a first.. Once you think you can pick up the can be sure you can hold it.. There is no hurry here what so ever, and you could wait years, but then you don't want to wait years do you?
IF you open that can too soon, and or the lid blows off you will cook off all the char and have white ashes.. White ashes are worthless.
Inspect the charred sticks, I suspect you think you can over cook these... You can't.. IF you see uniform black you have char... If you see shades of tan you haven't quite cooked it to be what we wamt here. If so cook it more.
EXPECT to see shrunken sticks. These will shrink shorter and thinner...
Another way if you live in a city is to dress down and look like a bum...
With a metal pail you make a refractory. That means you poke a 1/4"-3/8" holes in many places low on the pail , then set the pail on rocks/bricks, and build a fire in the pail. Then that same paint can goes in on the fire, and all the above happen. A bottle of MD 20-20 will be handy if you don't want Ol' Johnny Law botherin you while you play char monger...
Getting back to that tan colored char... That is usefull to a flint and steel fire starter but is off topic here. That tan is close but not char, so it will blaze to fire when things are done corrcect with no other tinder.
me: I am at a loss still as to the sulfer and the niter parts, but making carbon any fool can do, and I know, because 1, I am a fool, and 2, I make great carbon from all sorts of things..
The main problems are the can top can blow off, and wreck the work, hence 3 holes. A locking paint can helps here... If not a wire thru a cookie tin and the lid works as well.
Allowing air in too soon... Plug the holes with nails.
Not waiting for the tin to cool... You will never make that mistake twice..
Under done.. Not likely unless you want it under done and then Murphy's Rules apply..
GARY, Hey we be way down here Gary.... Me? Chrono? Ho Ho HO Me and new fangled wire thingymabobs are not a good mix... I have been at scheeming (sp) a powder tester like was had in the old days... I have no clue .....yet as to how about make one. This is a device to 'test" powda, and looks like a pistol, with a spring loaded brass gizzmo with a scale and pointer.
Now if there is any victim, err,,, shooter here with a chrono, and are willing to allow me to kill, err,,, maime,,, umm, no, test with it, and don't mind parts and pieces in haydee's.. Well then yer on...
Chances of that? :banghead:
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Unless you're using it in a flinter or matchlock, the sulfur is not needed.
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html
http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html
Macmac
Member
Looks like I need sulfer... Bess, Nor West Gun, Home and hand made pistol to shott what the Nor West Gun shoots, and a caintuckaway Long Rifle in little .40... I don't think I will ever get accustomed to that little 0.390 pea of a round ball, after years of throwin real big lead.
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zxcvbob
Member
Well, I loaded 10 rounds of .45 Colt with the homemade powder and took it to the range (along with a bunch of smokeless ammo.) I filled the cartridges to the top with powder and compressed it with the bullet. (about 28 grains of powder by weight) I think that was the problem. Instead of going BOOM!, they kind of went FART! The bullets did not stick in the barrels, and they made an impressive amount of smoke and some fire. Some of the bullets didn't hit the targets hard enough to knock them over. One round was a lot more powerful than the others; I think that was the one where it wasn't quite full of powder, therefore not compressed so much.
ACORN
Member
That is too funny!
Bob, either your powder isn't dried enough ( it should not be clumping at all, unglazed, homemade powder is free flowing ), or the chems aren't pure enough.
Please let me know again:
1-what mill are you using?
2- Is the mill jar half full with lead media? I use about 30lbs of lead balls, which half fills the jar.
3- is your charcoal black when cooked? Brown is undercooked, grey is overcooked.
I'd suggest just buying some proper chems from the link I've posted before. Lab grade KNO3 and Sulfur are much different than stump remover and dusting sulfur, which have high impurities and silicates.
I was making BP for a few years with lower grade chems, then when switching to good stuff, my rockets would blow up instead of fly! I had to change the mixes and add a mineral oil binder to slow them down!
I can get about 30 grains of homemade BP in a .45lc case. It's a huge deep boom and very hard recoil. So much that I no longer load 30 grains, I backed off to 25.
Bob, if you'd like, I'll send you some willow charcoal and even some good KNO3 for you to have a batch for comparison. Your homemade will easily be more powerful and cleaner than goex and you won't need a chronograph to be able to tell that it's got more power.
Please let me know again:
1-what mill are you using?
2- Is the mill jar half full with lead media? I use about 30lbs of lead balls, which half fills the jar.
3- is your charcoal black when cooked? Brown is undercooked, grey is overcooked.
I'd suggest just buying some proper chems from the link I've posted before. Lab grade KNO3 and Sulfur are much different than stump remover and dusting sulfur, which have high impurities and silicates.
I was making BP for a few years with lower grade chems, then when switching to good stuff, my rockets would blow up instead of fly! I had to change the mixes and add a mineral oil binder to slow them down!
I can get about 30 grains of homemade BP in a .45lc case. It's a huge deep boom and very hard recoil. So much that I no longer load 30 grains, I backed off to 25.
Bob, if you'd like, I'll send you some willow charcoal and even some good KNO3 for you to have a batch for comparison. Your homemade will easily be more powerful and cleaner than goex and you won't need a chronograph to be able to tell that it's got more power.
You can find a powder tester here.
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_125&products_id=3519
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_125&products_id=3519
zxcvbob
Member
My charcoal was jet black. The second batch of charcoal had a couple of pieces from the center of the kiln that were still brown in the middle but I didn't use those; I'll cook them again with the next batch.
I used a Harbor Freight rock tumber (two 3-pound capacity rubber drums; I only used one drum) and about 5.5 pounds of lead balls. The balls fill the drum almost halfway just by themselves. I tumbled for about 5 or 6 hours and the powder came out like dark gray talcum. It was black when I dampened it with rubbing alcohol.
The powder was free-flowing, but still might be a little too damp. I think I compressed it too much in the cartridges. I will try it again filling to the bottom of the bullet with no compression. I think I basically pressed the powder into a little rocket engine without the hollow core.
I'm going to try to find some KNO3 fertilizer (higher grade than stump remover, and I can purify it further if I have to by recrystalizing) and pharmaceutical grade sulfur. I can also use the KNO3 to fertilize my lawn and my aquarium -- 50 pounds goes a *long* way.
I almost forgot to mention: Even though the powder didn't behave right, it was still cleaner than Goex or Pyrodex.
I used a Harbor Freight rock tumber (two 3-pound capacity rubber drums; I only used one drum) and about 5.5 pounds of lead balls. The balls fill the drum almost halfway just by themselves. I tumbled for about 5 or 6 hours and the powder came out like dark gray talcum. It was black when I dampened it with rubbing alcohol.
The powder was free-flowing, but still might be a little too damp. I think I compressed it too much in the cartridges. I will try it again filling to the bottom of the bullet with no compression. I think I basically pressed the powder into a little rocket engine without the hollow core.
I'm going to try to find some KNO3 fertilizer (higher grade than stump remover, and I can purify it further if I have to by recrystalizing) and pharmaceutical grade sulfur. I can also use the KNO3 to fertilize my lawn and my aquarium -- 50 pounds goes a *long* way.
I almost forgot to mention: Even though the powder didn't behave right, it was still cleaner than Goex or Pyrodex.
the hiyield stump remover i bought and used for nitrating paper came in little round pellets about like a #7 1/2 shot. I melted these in hot water , strained the goop and used the cristyline powder that precipitated out. It may be that whatever adhesive they used to make the little balls of stump remover is an excessive impurity.
zxcvbob
Member
MEC, I think you're probably right. I read on a rocketmaking web site where they washed the stump remover pellets with methanol to remove impurities (the brand of stump remover they had seemed to be coated with NaOH.) Methanol is expensive. Dissolving in hot water, filtering, chilling, and recrystalizing is probably better and not as much work as it sounds like because KNO3 is just barely soluble in cold water.
I'm sure you used water and alcohol to form a ball then screened right?
The charcoal sounds fine. I have a small chicago electric tumbler too, but it'll never mill as well as a real ball mill.
Ebay seller hobfir makes some nice ball mills, but you can make your own real cheap with an old washer motor, steel shafts, pillow block bearings, heater hose and pulleys. Here's a picture of my homemade mill, which wasn't a cheap build, but it's tough and weather proof.
Sounds like when you dry it more it'll work better. After milling, was it clumpy inside the mill barrel? It should be. Mine becomes a dense cake at about 3hrs of milling, but my mill is efficient and the media cascades well to help milling. Test a chunk straight from the mill next time. It should be an instant "whoosh" that you'd miss if you blinked. It's literally a flash and not a slow burn.
The charcoal sounds fine. I have a small chicago electric tumbler too, but it'll never mill as well as a real ball mill.
Ebay seller hobfir makes some nice ball mills, but you can make your own real cheap with an old washer motor, steel shafts, pillow block bearings, heater hose and pulleys. Here's a picture of my homemade mill, which wasn't a cheap build, but it's tough and weather proof.
Sounds like when you dry it more it'll work better. After milling, was it clumpy inside the mill barrel? It should be. Mine becomes a dense cake at about 3hrs of milling, but my mill is efficient and the media cascades well to help milling. Test a chunk straight from the mill next time. It should be an instant "whoosh" that you'd miss if you blinked. It's literally a flash and not a slow burn.
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zxcvbob
Member
It was not clumpy in the mill, it was about like dust (as fine as but not as messy as charcoal dust). Maybe I need to mill it longer.
I added water and alcohol to it as I mixed it with a pastry blender until it formed coarse crumbs. Then I gathered up handfuls of it and squeezed it into little "turds". Then rubbed them thru a seive, and allowed to dry in a pile for 24 hours.
I added water and alcohol to it as I mixed it with a pastry blender until it formed coarse crumbs. Then I gathered up handfuls of it and squeezed it into little "turds". Then rubbed them thru a seive, and allowed to dry in a pile for 24 hours.
What are you guys doing to prevent static electricity buildup in your powder mills? As I understand from reading a couple of threads, you guys are using rock tumblers as mills. These are electrically powered, so are you worried about static electricity? Also, when you guys say you're using rock tumblers, can you please specify which make/model? I have a thumler's tumbler model B. Would that work? At this point, making powder is un-economical for me, but I'm always interested in the learning aspect of this forum.
-John
-John
Whether or not it's electrically powered does not determine static buildup. The materials used, friction of milling and humidity do.
I take basic precautions, wear non static clothes ( cotton, no synthetics ) try to mill on semi humid days, keep mill set on ground and unplug remotely with an extension cord. I've never heard of a mill blowing up, noone I've known to mill BP has ever heard of it either. It's possible, but shouldn't ever happen if you follow some guidelines. Besides, BP is not notably static sensitive. It could go with a spark, but you're typical static sparks probably won't cut it anyway.
Bob, you'll need to mill longer then, or not mill more than 150 grams in a batch.
I can do 1 to 2 pounds easy in 3 hours of milling, but that's a 1 gallon Mill jar.
I'll be picking up another barrel soon to pre mill charcoal in. I use my mill to tumble my brass too, it works great!!
I take basic precautions, wear non static clothes ( cotton, no synthetics ) try to mill on semi humid days, keep mill set on ground and unplug remotely with an extension cord. I've never heard of a mill blowing up, noone I've known to mill BP has ever heard of it either. It's possible, but shouldn't ever happen if you follow some guidelines. Besides, BP is not notably static sensitive. It could go with a spark, but you're typical static sparks probably won't cut it anyway.
Bob, you'll need to mill longer then, or not mill more than 150 grams in a batch.
I can do 1 to 2 pounds easy in 3 hours of milling, but that's a 1 gallon Mill jar.
I'll be picking up another barrel soon to pre mill charcoal in. I use my mill to tumble my brass too, it works great!!
zxcvbob
Member
What is the finished mill powder supposed to look like? I like doing half-pound batches; no reason I can't mill it for 24 hours if I have to.
Once I get the kinks worked out, I'm probably gonna check this off of my lifetime todo list and go back to smokeless powder. So I don't want to buy any expensive equipment. But I want to be able to make my own usable BP, and make a small batch occasionally.
Once I get the kinks worked out, I'm probably gonna check this off of my lifetime todo list and go back to smokeless powder. So I don't want to buy any expensive equipment. But I want to be able to make my own usable BP, and make a small batch occasionally.
Macmac
Member
I am reading all of this, and I don't understand the pics. I see a motor 2 rollers, but no container. If there is a container I can't see it. If not then perhaps I understand better, as then it would perch on the driving roller and be held by the other roller.
If that is correct, then a do it yerselfer might find and salvage printer rollers at the dump and if he gets lucky also find a sewwing machime motor. Just my take.
One day I will do as I am reading, but with my own machine. I see no reason I can't ground it, and any part of it.
I am not so sure I understand this page on the web, but perhaps one of you guys can explain why better, that arcing powders on purpose does NOT set these off!
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
If that is correct, then a do it yerselfer might find and salvage printer rollers at the dump and if he gets lucky also find a sewwing machime motor. Just my take.
One day I will do as I am reading, but with my own machine. I see no reason I can't ground it, and any part of it.
I am not so sure I understand this page on the web, but perhaps one of you guys can explain why better, that arcing powders on purpose does NOT set these off!
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
I didn't post a pic of the Mill jar, I will though when I can take some. Yes, it sits on the rollers. Some people drive both rollers, but if they're spaced right and the mill jar is full, you get enough traction and it rotates right.
I used 3/4" Al round stock and just slipped some heater hose over it. My mill was cheap outside of all the brite tread Al and stainless hardware.
BP needs alot of heat to burn and static sparks probably in most cases won't be enough. The link to the static test, they should have also tried mill dust, which has no graphite and may take the static spark easier.
Bob, if you had the proper chems and setup, you'd be making BP alot and never buying any again! I do use smokeless too, always used Unique, but just switched to American Select which is great for .45lc!!
I used 3/4" Al round stock and just slipped some heater hose over it. My mill was cheap outside of all the brite tread Al and stainless hardware.
BP needs alot of heat to burn and static sparks probably in most cases won't be enough. The link to the static test, they should have also tried mill dust, which has no graphite and may take the static spark easier.
Bob, if you had the proper chems and setup, you'd be making BP alot and never buying any again! I do use smokeless too, always used Unique, but just switched to American Select which is great for .45lc!!
GlowinPontiac
Member
try to find and use unprilled KNO3.
alot of times the nitrate prills are chemically coated to prevent their use in fertilizer bombs and such. order from a chemical supplier and get lab grade potassium nitrate. i still have a little under a pound left laying around along with some sulphur and charcoal...... someday ill have to drag out my homemade mill and try to whip up another batch.
alot of times the nitrate prills are chemically coated to prevent their use in fertilizer bombs and such. order from a chemical supplier and get lab grade potassium nitrate. i still have a little under a pound left laying around along with some sulphur and charcoal...... someday ill have to drag out my homemade mill and try to whip up another batch.
I get my KNO3 here: http://www.ihaveadotcom.com/
You can also get lab grade on ebay. Some seem afraid to order chems online, but blackpowder is a legitimate and legal use still. Anyone into BP rocketry buys KNO3, for BP or sugar based rockets.
Phil's a good guy to buy from, very helpful and professional. GlowinPontiac is right though, prilled fertilizer has a coating, some sort of calcium or something. We used to soak the KNO3 prill in alchohol to dissolve the sludge and then redry it in an electric wok. Much easier to just buy some. I haven't needed to buy KNO3 in a long time, 50 pounds is enough for about 75 pound of BP!! Charcoal is free, Sulfur is cheap.
What usually stops people from all this is the startup cost ( mill, media, chems, tools...) but it's a trade off for knowing you'll have real BP anytime, all the time, even when it's no longer available to consumers ( which will probably be soon depending on who wins in '08...) .
I started making BP for shooting, but it led me into BP rockets, pyrotechnics, stars, comets..etc. I probably used to spend a couple hundred around the 4th each year for misc consumer fireworks, now we always have a night of skyrockets, mortars, comets, crossettes and salutes, for very little money, plus it's fun to make them all!
You can also get lab grade on ebay. Some seem afraid to order chems online, but blackpowder is a legitimate and legal use still. Anyone into BP rocketry buys KNO3, for BP or sugar based rockets.
Phil's a good guy to buy from, very helpful and professional. GlowinPontiac is right though, prilled fertilizer has a coating, some sort of calcium or something. We used to soak the KNO3 prill in alchohol to dissolve the sludge and then redry it in an electric wok. Much easier to just buy some. I haven't needed to buy KNO3 in a long time, 50 pounds is enough for about 75 pound of BP!! Charcoal is free, Sulfur is cheap.
What usually stops people from all this is the startup cost ( mill, media, chems, tools...) but it's a trade off for knowing you'll have real BP anytime, all the time, even when it's no longer available to consumers ( which will probably be soon depending on who wins in '08...) .
I started making BP for shooting, but it led me into BP rockets, pyrotechnics, stars, comets..etc. I probably used to spend a couple hundred around the 4th each year for misc consumer fireworks, now we always have a night of skyrockets, mortars, comets, crossettes and salutes, for very little money, plus it's fun to make them all!
Norseman_01
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2007
- Messages
- 23
I highly recommend milling for at least 24 hours. A full week if you can.
Good quality KNO3 and Sulfur will make a HUGE difference. I bought some off Ebay a while back and it works like a charm.
Don't go crazy... just make a 1/4 lb to start with and let it go for a good long time.
Then, press it in some manner or fashion. I have seen simple ones with nothing more than a pair of $15 C-clamps from the hardware store used to press the powder between layers of wax paper with hockey pucks on the ends. (Its called a "hockey puck press" by some folks)
I used an old 2ton hydraulic jack and a hunk of schedule 4 with hockey pucks on the ends and it worked really well. I milled for 4 days before pressing and then dried it out slowly.
I never bothered to glaze mine with graphite... never made enough to have to worry about it.
In the end, it was just as powerful as 777 but has that nice black powder smell.
Good quality KNO3 and Sulfur will make a HUGE difference. I bought some off Ebay a while back and it works like a charm.
Don't go crazy... just make a 1/4 lb to start with and let it go for a good long time.
Then, press it in some manner or fashion. I have seen simple ones with nothing more than a pair of $15 C-clamps from the hardware store used to press the powder between layers of wax paper with hockey pucks on the ends. (Its called a "hockey puck press" by some folks)
I used an old 2ton hydraulic jack and a hunk of schedule 4 with hockey pucks on the ends and it worked really well. I milled for 4 days before pressing and then dried it out slowly.
I never bothered to glaze mine with graphite... never made enough to have to worry about it.
In the end, it was just as powerful as 777 but has that nice black powder smell.
If you're needing to mill more than 3-6 hrs, then you're mill isn't working right. If you have the proper RPM for BP milling, ( for me it's around 80 ) and the right amount of lead media ( 25-30 lbs for my mill ) then the lead will cascade and sort of float around in the mill.
A slow mill won't lift the media, a fast mill also won't lift the media. It took a while for me and I had to track down the proper pulleys get the ratio right to reduce the 1725 rpm motor to an 80 rpm milljar. I got help from Lloyd Sponenburgh, he literally wrote the book on ball milling: http://www.fireworksnews.com/product/54/4
• For me, milling over 3 hours is pointless. The powder at the point is a dense cake on all surfaces of the mill jar. A chunk of this, out of the mill, burns instantly with alot of surrounding air movement, something GOEX won't do in my tests anyway.
I'll be going back through and posting pics soon too, but there should be no need to mill for such long times, then your pushing the motor and asking for trouble. Those Harbor freight tumblers can't handle continuos loads for long before the belt break.
I think bob will have much greater results with better chems.
A slow mill won't lift the media, a fast mill also won't lift the media. It took a while for me and I had to track down the proper pulleys get the ratio right to reduce the 1725 rpm motor to an 80 rpm milljar. I got help from Lloyd Sponenburgh, he literally wrote the book on ball milling: http://www.fireworksnews.com/product/54/4
• For me, milling over 3 hours is pointless. The powder at the point is a dense cake on all surfaces of the mill jar. A chunk of this, out of the mill, burns instantly with alot of surrounding air movement, something GOEX won't do in my tests anyway.
I'll be going back through and posting pics soon too, but there should be no need to mill for such long times, then your pushing the motor and asking for trouble. Those Harbor freight tumblers can't handle continuos loads for long before the belt break.
I think bob will have much greater results with better chems.
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