First BP Revolver - Questions

[NoAlibi]

I’ve been shooting BP rifles fo many years, however I just got my first BP handgun from Cabella’s- a Pietta 1858 New Model Army .44 caliber revolver.

The fit and finish are not the best, but very, very good for the money. Cabella’s sent me the gun with the manufacture’s hand book and Cabella’s handbook for black powder guns.

Pietta’s handbook shows a round ball loading range of 12-15 grains of 3f for this gun.

Cabella’s handbook shows a round ball/conical loading of 35 grains of 3f - more than 2 times the amount of Pietta.

What’s behind this - liability...typo...weak metallurgy???

Also, neither manual recommends a specific size or make of percussion cap. So what would you recommend and also what would be the hottest cap for it?

Thanks...NoAlibi

 

[hogshead]

Just sent a Pietta back to Cabelas Liked the gun but it had fixed sights shot to the left about 4 inches at 20 yards. I just filled the cylinder to the top with Pyrodex. I used # 11 caps but I think I read you should use #10 .I love the c@b they are a blast to shoot. Also there are 2 sizes of round ball 451 @454 I shot both and really couldnt tell much difference.

 

[Oyeboten]

Brass Frames should not have full Charging/Loads...

 

[hogshead]

Might explain the difference in the load data . What kinda frame you got no alibi?

 

[Mike OTDP]

The guns will shoot a full charge safely, but reduced charges offer equal or better accuracy and are a lot more pleasant. 15 grains is a good starting point. Use Cream of Wheat as a filler, leave 1/2 to 3/8 inch for the ball.

 

[NoAlibi]

hogshead - It has an all steel frame with a brass trigger guard.

Mike OTDP - The Lyman BP Hand Book recommends that corn meal be used as a filler because of its compressibility and it "forgives an overdose" (page 66) and not to use cream of wheat because it was not compressible and required "relatively precise measuring".

Have you found the cream of wheat better for accuracy?

 

[DrLaw]

If you have an all-steel frame you will be fine even if you stuff the cylinder as full as you can and still get a ball in.

However, as somebody else said, accuracy will suffer.

The best thing you can do is to work up your loads. You will find that the Remington design will demand cleaning of the front of the cylinder after 18 shots or less.

Try loading in this order, powder, over powder felt wad, ball, and Bore Butter or Crisco. The BB or Crisco will extend the amount of shooting you can do before the gun starts to jam because of the caking of black powder residue on the front of the cylinder. Best to keep some black powder solvent and patches handy to clean occaisionally as you shoot.

Start with 15 grains and work your way up. Chances are you will not go over 25 grains before you find the most accurate load.

Have fun!

The Doc is out now.

 

[pohill]

.44 caliber - use 25 grs of black powder. Pour the powder in, then ram the ball down (.454 ball). It should shave a ring of lead that you will remove so it doesn't jam the gun (hold off on the Cream of Wheat until you get the mechanics down). Cover the loaded ball with Bore Butter or Crisco (I use the vegetable spray PAM but I think I'm the only one). I use #11 caps pinched on. #10 might fit at first, but when the nipples foul they'll be tight. Watch where the spent caps fall.
Remington cylinders tend to slow and jam from fouling on the ungrooved cylinder pin (arbor) - again, I use PAM on the pin and it works great.
That is my method. You gotta find your own.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

30 grains of Triple Seven 3fff, .451 swaged round lead ball, (little grease over the balls. Solid Crisco will work just fine) Remington #10 percussion cap and you can do no wrong my good man....

 

[Sagetown]

Hey NoAlibi:

Pietta’s handbook shows a round ball loading range of 12-15 grains of 3f for this gun.

This would be the safe minimum using Real Black Powder such as GOEX 3F.

Cabella’s handbook shows a round ball/conical loading of 35 grains of 3f - more than 2 times the amount of Pietta.

This would be the safe maximum load. However; it's been noted that in Brass Frame revolvers a milder load is recommended to prolong the life of said revolver.

From there, you can vary the powder types, ie., substitutes, but read the label's recommended amounts. As for the Percussion Caps. Most common is the #11. Usually these fit a little loose on the nipple and tend to fall off because the standard nipples are tapered from the base up like a snowcone, and because the cap is too short to connect with the wider portion of the nipple. That said, many find the Remington #10's have a much longer cup to make a firm contact with the nipple base. Other's solve this problem by purchasing after market nipples by TresCo. These nipples are not tapered but straight, allowing a firm contact with the majority of caps regardless of brand.

I hope this can be of help...
Sage

 

[mykeal]

Here's some data on the size of various caps:

The most important thing about the above data is that the size number is utterly meaningless. CCI's No. 10 is not the same as Remington's No. 10, and CCI's No. 11 is not the same as Remington's No. 11. Also, the Remington No. 11 is actually smaller than the Remington No. 10, while CCI's No. 11 is much larger than their No. 10.

What the data doesn't say is that the dimensions vary from lot to lot, so what you get with No. 10's today may not be what you get tomorrow. You don't get three decimal place precision for 4 cents.

The reason none of the manuals tells you what to use is that they don't know. Nipples can vary as much as the caps (yeah, they cost more but getting three decimal precision on a tapered cone isn't in the price), so predicting what someone may need is nearly impossible.

Bottom line: don't count on the number to mean anything. If what you have isn't working, try something else until you find something that does, and expect that you may have to change some day when what used to work doesn't any more.

 

[arcticap]

Just sent a Pietta back to Cabelas Liked the gun but it had fixed sights shot to the left about 4 inches at 20 yards. I just filled the cylinder to the top with Pyrodex. I used # 11 caps but I think I read you should use #10 .I love the c@b they are a blast to shoot. Also there are 2 sizes of round ball 451 @454 I shot both and really couldnt tell much difference.

It sounds like that Pietta 1858 had fixed sights that were very well regulated to the point of impact.
Was there another problem with the revolver?

 

[sundance44s]

I`d pour the 777 on an ant hill and light`em up ...then get some Goex 3F and enjoy the pistol .
GOTC ....forget I said that ....ha ha

 

[BHP FAN]

Pyrodex is much,much worse.I agree on the Goex.

 

[NoAlibi]

Thank you one and all

mykeal: The percussion cap data is exactly the information I was looking for. I also appreciate that you took the time give your insights on the reality of the data. Without a doubt you saved me some frustration in wondering why a cap of a smaller dimension was loose and a cap of a larger dimension fit properly and especially, “...expect that you may have to change some day when what used to work doesn’t anymore.” I’ll keep that in mind!

hogshead - Oyeboten - Mike OTDP - DrLaw - pohill - GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL - Sagetown: Thank you for your input. You've given me plenty to think about and work with...NoAlibi