Guns and Ammo just did a hatchet job on BP revolvers.

[Tommygunn]

Thats one of the hazards of repeating second and third hand information. I did shoot one deer with a 22 rifle. The bullet ranged from the last rib on the right and went through the lungs and stopped on the far side of the deer. The bullet was undeformed and the bullet path was straight as an arrow. And yes a 22 (or any other bullet) can be deflected by bone or even just take a curved path. But bullets don't "bounce" around inside of heads or anything else.

I for one consider a 22 a damn deadly weapon. My uncle was a homicide cop and spoke about how effective a 22 is when shot in the right spot. Even a poorly placed shot can be a killer down the road as he said after you lay in the hospital for a while and then die of pneumonia.

Do a little research and you will find that sickness and disease killed more than half of the civil war soldiers. And cannon fire killed more than rifles and pistols did.

http://www.pbs.org/mercy-street/uncover-history/behind-lens/disease/#:~:text=Of the 620,000 recorded military,was probably closer to 750,000.

I never intended to suggest a .22 could not be a deadly weapon.
And I'm quite aware that sepsis was a deadly consequence of getting shot in the Civil War. I used to have a book dealing with both the disease consequence and the infirmities resulting from that war. You would not believe the physical infirmities faced by those who actually survived being shot by a rifle then. I won't go into detail but the book had some truly grotesque photos. It was unfortunatly lost in a fire.

 

[ThomasT]

I never intended to suggest a .22 could not be a deadly weapon.
And I'm quite aware that sepsis was a deadly consequence of getting shot in the Civil War. I used to have a book dealing with both the disease consequence and the infirmities resulting from that war. You would not believe the physical infirmities faced by those who actually survived being shot by a rifle then. I won't go into detail but the book had some truly grotesque photos. It was unfortunatly lost in a fire.

Actually yes I would. I have the Time/Life Civil War series I bought many years ago. Its a 26 volumn set that I read every word of. It was a very good read but I will never read it again. It took me 6 months to get through it but if you are interested in the Civil War I highly recommend the series. There is a whole lot more to that war than can be seen on any documentary like the Ken Burns Civil War set. No one talks about what the civilians in the south went through but it was bad. If you were close and wanted to read the books I would loan them to you. You would come away with a new respect for what that war was.

 

[Tommygunn]

Actually yes I would. I have the Time/Life Civil War series I bought many years ago. Its a 26 volumn set that I read every word of. It was a very good read but I will never read it again. It took me 6 months to get through it but if you are interested in the Civil War I highly recommend the series. There is a whole lot more to that war than can be seen on any documentary like the Ken Burns Civil War set. No one talks about what the civilians in the south went through but it was bad. If you were close and wanted to read the books I would loan them to you. You would come away with a new respect for what that war was.

I'll see if I can find it on Amazon.

EDIT: Just back from Amazon. I ordered a good used copy for $100.00, a bargain .... Given that the 1 new copy was -- GULP!!! -- $675.00!!!! Ack!!!

 

[ThomasT]

I bought my set off Ebay. I paid $125 for it and that included shipping. And it wasn't just gunshot wounds and bayonet wounds that killed soldiers but simple childhood diseases like the Mumps, Measles and Chicken Pocs. Most of the men were farm boys who had never been exposed to some of these diseases and had no immunity. They also had what they called the Camp Cough that reportedly would drown out the bugles in the morning because so many were coughing at the same time. I believe this was discussed in the link I posted.

 

[ThomasT]

Given that the 1 new copy was -- GULP!!! -- $675.00!!!! Ack!!!

Holy Moly! Maybe I'll hold on to my set. I thought about taking them to the local book store and just giving them away to get them out of the attic. By the way which book was priced that high?

 

[Tommygunn]

It was the entire set. Maybe that makes more sense but I'm not paying near $700. 00 for the set when a good used set is $100.00!!!!

 

[expat_alaska]

Actually yes I would. I have the Time/Life Civil War series I bought many years ago. Its a 26 volume set that I read every word of. It was a very good read but I will never read it again. It took me 6 months to get through it but if you are interested in the Civil War I highly recommend the series. There is a whole lot more to that war than can be seen on any documentary like the Ken Burns Civil War set. No one talks about what the civilians in the south went through but it was bad. If you were close and wanted to read the books I would loan them to you. You would come away with a new respect for what that war was.

I'll see if I can find it on Amazon.

EDIT: Just back from Amazon. I ordered a good used copy for $100.00, a bargain .... Given that the 1 new copy was -- GULP!!! -- $675.00!!!! Ack!!!

I have the complete set that I purchased, book by book, decades ago. I don't think I have read them in over 25 years. If interested, PM me.

Regards,

Jim

 

[piettakid]

I

Black powder firearms, even the vaunted Ruger Old Army, are designed to safely contain pressures generated by black powder. They are not designed for any kind of smokeless powder. Wikipedia notwithstanding. (How many internal ballistics engineers do they have on staff again?)
!

Yes yes yes. We all know what ruger says, but they say that because the lawyers insist on it.

 

[woodnbow]

Yes yes yes. We all know what ruger says, but they say that because the lawyers insist on it.

Right... carry on.

 

[piettakid]

Actually yes I would. I have the Time/Life Civil War series I bought many years ago. Its a 26 volumn set that I read every word of. It was a very good read but I will never read it again. It took me 6 months to get through it but if you are interested in the Civil War I highly recommend the series. There is a whole lot more to that war than can be seen on any documentary like the Ken Burns Civil War set. No one talks about what the civilians in the south went through but it was bad. If you were close and wanted to read the books I would loan them to you. You would come away with a new respect for what that war was.

Talking about Lincoln's War and BP rifles i remember reading once that after a battle, some officials went out and examined the guns laying beside the dead soldiers. They were astonished to find that most of the guns that were still loaded were IMPROPERLY loaded!!! They had a ball but no powder or powder in front of the ball or two balls loaded or powder loaded but no ball. The big problem with muzzleloading rifles in a war was not so much that the guns were slow to reload but that the men would panic and do everything wrong.

 

[Tommygunn]

Talking about Lincoln's War and BP rifles i remember reading once that after a battle, some officials went out and examined the guns laying beside the dead soldiers. They were astonished to find that most of the guns that were still loaded were IMPROPERLY loaded!!! They had a ball but no powder or powder in front of the ball or two balls loaded or powder loaded but no ball. The big problem with muzzleloading rifles in a war was not so much that the guns were slow to reload but that the men would panic and do everything wrong.

Perhaps the soldiers who loaded their guns correctly were the ones that survived. .....

Well, maybe not, maybe that's an unfair generalisation. "War is hell," as General Sherman said - - - and for those young men involved, it must have been terrifying. Being shot at .... seeing your buddy's head explode as a half inch wide lead mine ball went through it. In those conditions most peoples' fine motor control goes south real fast. It is like dealing with a palsy. 'Did I load the powder? Oh wait, I just put the ball down there --- never mind just put powder down and ram a ball home --- fast!!!"
And a lot of soldiers also launched their ramrod too....

Few men are really born for war. In one documentary I saw, George Armstrong Custer wrote a letter to his wife Libby in which he claimed that for himself, he loved war and could wish every day was a battle .... but even he had enough perspective to admit to Libby that, for his country, war was an "utter disaster."

Yes ...... and for the better part of a million human souls ....

 

[DocRock]

Yes yes yes. We all know what ruger says, but they say that because the lawyers insist on it.

And why is that?

 

[ThomasT]

Talking about Lincoln's War and BP rifles i remember reading once that after a battle, some officials went out and examined the guns laying beside the dead soldiers. They were astonished to find that most of the guns that were still loaded were IMPROPERLY loaded!!! They had a ball but no powder or powder in front of the ball or two balls loaded or powder loaded but no ball. The big problem with muzzleloading rifles in a war was not so much that the guns were slow to reload but that the men would panic and do everything wrong.

After the battles they would pick up the rifles and reissue them. Some had multiple charges in them. IIRC the highest had 9 loads rammed down the barrel. Apparently that soldier kept loading but forgot to cap the rifle and would pull the trigger but in his fear and excitement didn't notice the gun wasn't firing. So he just kept reloading.

 

[gtrgy888]

The only thing in the article that made me uncomfortable was the advice to carry the fully loaded with six loads with the hammer partially cocked. I'm thinking it's better resting between chambers or down on an empty chamber. Otherwise it was another of many, many entry level discussions regarding black powder revolvers.

The half cock notch is NOT a safety notch. I tested dropping the hammer from a little less than half cock distance and the cap ignited. Carrying a weapon in that condition is just asking for trouble if the hammer sear snaps.

 

[swg1]

The half cock notch is NOT a safety notch. I tested dropping the hammer from a little less than half cock distance and the cap ignited. Carrying a weapon in that condition is just asking for trouble if the hammer sear snaps.

Yup, my point in mentioning it. Rather surprised no one else noticed it and instead got wrapped up in thinking their BP guns had somehow been disrespected in what was clearly an introductory/entry level article regarding the subject.

 

[woodnbow]

And why is that?

Maybe lawyers are jerks who hate to see people having fun?

That or they assess that there’s a real danger that some knucklehead will miss the warnings in the manual and turn their fine revolver into a grenade and then later a curiosity down at the local gun store...

 

[piettakid]

Yup, my point in mentioning it. Rather surprised no one else noticed it and instead got wrapped up in thinking their BP guns had somehow been disrespected in what was clearly an introductory/entry level article regarding the subject.

I don't think the author of the G&A article has much experience with BP. He says the rem 1858 has muzzle energy of 250 foot pounds.. That's true with the target load of 28 grains but it's safe to go well beyond that.

 

[NathanHale]

I'm gonna say....Who cares? Everything is relative to something else. A crowbar is an "anemic" weapon relative to a '58 remmy or an ROA, until you end up on the wrong end of one. An Abrams M1 tank is an "anemic" weapon compared to an ICBM.

A GREAT deal of the effectiveness of any and all of the above, comes down to the skill of the operator. An extra 2000fps isn't gonna mean a damn thing if the bullet is traveling 30-45-90-180 degrees off target, right? Knowing HOW to utilize the given tool, makes for a much more effective utilization.

+2
Just because one buys Superman's cape, does not mean one can fly. The effectiveness of any weapon is 90% operator.

 

[CraigC]

I don't think the author of the G&A article has much experience with BP. He says the rem 1858 has muzzle energy of 250 foot pounds.. That's true with the target load of 28 grains but it's safe to go well beyond that.

I don't know who the author was but would say he doesn't know much about terminal ballistics at all if he's still quoting energy figures.

 

[PapaG]

G&A ceased to be relevant when they put Venola on the back page. (And then added Metcalf).

 

[armoredman]

Back to the ROA - I remember seeing one on the shelf at a LGS way back in the day, when I was a low paid security guard and thought, gee, that would be cool, and went on my way, thinking I'd snag one when I made more money... Oops.

 

[Rex in OTZ]

I know I can shake out two powder charges in my ASM 1860 replica and still mash in a lead ball.
The cylinder can certainly hold the powder, but its too much abuse for such a open top design.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I know I can shake out two powder charges in my ASM 1860 replica and still mash in a lead ball.
The cylinder can certainly hold the powder, but its too much abuse for such a open top design.

Nothing wrong with the open top design. Fix your short arbor in that ASM (and close the bbl./cyl clearance down to .003" max) and you can shoot max charges till the cows come home!

Mike

 

[Don Van Winkle]

After shooting all of the "modern" weapons for 30 years in the Navy; and going back to BP-in a close encounter, you do not want to get hit with my .44 Remington NMA. The modern gun magazines touting their muzzle velocities-I do not carry this weapon to shoot far away. I have the Sherrif model and being an Arizona Cowboy at heart; it soots me just fine. The day someone walks into my house uninvited late in the evening to do harm to me and mine; ................you get the idea. Muzzle velocity in a home invasion-I laugh at that!!

 

[brewer12345]

After shooting all of the "modern" weapons for 30 years in the Navy; and going back to BP-in a close encounter, you do not want to get hit with my .44 Remington NMA. The modern gun magazines touting their muzzle velocities-I do not carry this weapon to shoot far away. I have the Sherrif model and being an Arizona Cowboy at heart; it soots me just fine. The day someone walks into my house uninvited late in the evening to do harm to me and mine; ................you get the idea. Muzzle velocity in a home invasion-I laugh at that!!

Plus at home defense distances with a black power revolver, there is a good chance you set your assailant on fire.