First Gun for New Grad

[CTGunner]

My wife's younger brother just graduated from college and is one of the lucky few who has actually found a full time job in his field. The issue is that he had to move to a new state to find work and the work doesn't pay particularly well. As a result of all this he will be living in a 'bad' area in a rented house. Right now he doesn't have a gun but with my encouragement he's now open to the idea. I took him to a gun store and showed him a lot of different options. Keeping in mind that he's on a limited budget (Sub $500) my recommendation was to buy a Shotgun and a Revolver.

1. He really likes the simplicity of the Stoeger Coach Guns and wants to go with that. It's pretty cheap and as far as I can tell it's about as basic as it comes in terms of maintenance and training. Do you think this is a viable HD option or a mistake? My first reaction was to push for a pump action Mossberg but I also don't want to dissuade him and potentially have him end up with nothing.

2. For the Revolver I thought a 7 shot Smith & Wesson 686, loaded with .38s would be a good option. He handled it and thought that it felt too big...maybe a model 60 would be more appropriate?

He's probably not going to be able to get both right away so he'll probably just have the shotgun for at least 6 months to a year, maybe longer.

Just looking for general thoughts and advice on getting someone who is very very new to guns started asap.

 

[c-bag]

It seems it's going to be hard to get a 686+ alone for under $500, nevermind the shotgun. If you're trying to get a revolver and a shotgun for that price I think you should be looking for a Charter Arms, Rossi, Taurus or maybe a used Ruger. Maybe not the prestige name of Smith & Wesson, but i'm sure you can find a perfectly servicable gun like this for $300 or so.

If you're not married to the idea of a revolver something like a used Ruger P89 or 95, police-trade in Smith 59xx maybe a used XD or a little worn but servicable Glock could be found for $400 or so. Getting 9mm practice ammo will probably be cheaper than .38s and I think that's an important consideration; will it be affordable for him to practice with the thing?

With the shotgun I think you're on the right track. Where I live a used pump would be cheaper than a new double, YMMV. In the local ad-pages people regularly sell used Mossberg 500s for $150 or so. IF you can find a real steal on a field gun order a $72 security barrel and you're in business. I would personally prefer the pump, but if your brother-in-law likes the coach gun and the price is right then go with it.

 

[madwell]

I agree with you advice sounds like a good home deffence setup. The only thing i would say is get the hand gun first. If he even thinks he might end up wanting to carry the gun carring a shotugn will be hard. Good on you for helping out.

 

[killchain]

I recommend getting the shotgun first.

It is the quintessential "most accomplished with least amount of training" firearm for home defense.

Also, I recommend looking at the Maverick 88 line. It's made by Mossberg, and they're "budget" shotguns that the highest I've seen was $219 new. I have two of them used and I use them for hunting all the time... haven't given me any problems.

So, I paid $100 for my Mav 88 Security with the 20in cylinder bore, and I paid $400 for my FNP40 in .40S&W. Exactly $500 and I have the home defense setup you're thinking of... except no revolver, but no one's perfect.

Hope this helps.

 

[LaserSpot]

The revolver would be useful in a much wider variety of situations and is more likely to be close at hand. If someone knocks on the door at night, he's not likely to grab the shotgun; a revolver can be picked up and quickly concealed if the knock turns out to be drunk ex-girlfriend, etc...

 

[jon86]

I think he should get a shotgun first. I assume by your post that he hasn't had too much experience with firearms. A shotgun will be much easier to employ and aim by someone who isn't very experienced with firearms. I also believe that if he likes the double, then by all means, let him get the double. It is very simple, rugged, and reliable. The most important thing you can do for him though, is to TAKE HIM TO THE RANGE! Get him some good training with whatever he purchases. Maybe let him try one of your pump shotguns as well?

 

[CTGunner]

Good advice folks. Thanks. I am torn between the revolver and the shotgun too. The shotgun is less expensive and something he can get right away. At the same time I agree that the revolver is more versatile. He will definitely be shooting all my guns to get a feel. His reaction when I showed him a 686 was sort of funny. He said no way this is way too big and powerful...he thinks a smaller revolver would be easier to handle. I tried to explain that the bigger gun would be easier to shoot. In any case he's definitely going with the double barrel to get started and we'll go from there.

 

[RatDrall]

He can be well armed for $500.

Mossberg 500 will be a better gun than the stoeger, and should be found for less $$$. The '500 can be found all over the place for $250 new.

He can buy a security tradein S&W K-frame for $250. No reason to pay twice as much for a .38:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.../3104?osCsid=8c33f528fb67523ad42c2cb79b52c01c

 

[joe_security]

Just make sure he practices with his new purchase.

 

[orvpark]

No reason but pride (must buy new) not to have a good shotgun and a good revolver for $500

A good used or police trade in model 64 or the like can be had well under $250, shotgun options (new and used) under $250 are endless.

Nothing wrong with a coach if that is what he is comfortable with, double barrel shotguns have been defending the homestead for better than a century.

 

[ATBackPackin]

Congrats on helping your brother-in-law into the world of firearms and self preservation. Living in a new area can be tense particularly if it isn't the best of neighborhoods.

You didn't mention which state he is moving to or if he has any intention of carrying. To me that could make a difference in what kind of handgun would make a good choice. I could assume since your first suggestion was a S&W 686 that he doesn't plan on carrying, but I've learned not to do that. Well most of the time anyway.

I would also, like a few others, suggest the shotgun first. However, I'm not sure I agree with the Stoeger. Yes a double barrel can protect ones castle, but I would want something that holds more shells without a backup and especially if I was new to firearms. I understand he really likes the coach gun, but I agree that something like the Maverick or a less expensive Mossberg with 18.5 inch barrel would make a better choice with the capacity of 5+1. I know he wants the Stoeger, but I would try to explain that first he should have what he needs versus what he wants and there will be PLENTY of time for him to buy beautiful guns that he wants. Hell, he just graduated college.

Has he shot a 12 ga? Something to consider. I have read really good things about a 20 ga with #3 buckshot. This might be a really good option for a HD shotgun. Here is some really good ballistic information about the 20 ga with #3 buckshot. Just an option if the 12 ga is too much.

If he isn't going to carry, there are plenty of good police turn-in .38 revolvers for less than $250. I know a .357 shoots both, but for home protection I'm not going to load .357 anyway because it's louder and has more muzzle flash so a .38 is the better choice if you have to go cheap. If he plans on carrying, the CZ 82 would make a great choice. I believe CDNN has very good to excellent condition ones for $169. I understand that 9mm Mak isn't the best caliber out there, but with two mags I would feel perfectly comfortable with 25 rounds of it. Plenty comfortable! Plus the ammo is pretty cheap.

Just options to think about. Best of luck to your brother-in-law.

Shawn

 

[easyg]

Forget the shotgun.

Yes the shotgun is a great self defense weapon....if you happen to have it with you when danger rears its ugly head.
The problem is that most folks don't have their shotgun handy when they need it most.

The handgun is the best self defense option simply because it is the weapon that you can carry everywhere you go...
Walking the dog at night, checking the mailbox in the morning, answering the door-bell late in the evening, taking a bathroom break late at night, working in the garage, mowing the lawn, sipping a cold one on the back deck, checking in to a hotel room while on vacation, taking a road-trip with some friends, etc....
Those are the times when you're just not going to have a long gun nearby.

Now there's nothing wrong with a revolver.
It is still a very good choice for many folks when it comes to a self-defense handgun.

I'm not bashing revolvers or trying to turn this in to a revolver vs semi debate, but it has been my experience that most novices learn to shoot accurately much sooner, and with less range time (and less $$$ in ammo), with an autoloader than with a revolver.
A heavy double-action revolver trigger is not near as easy to master as a lighter single-action auto trigger or a lighter DAO semi-auto trigger.

Not to mention that most young men that I have taught how to shoot simply enjoy shooting autoloaders more than they do revolvers.

I would recommend getting him a Glock 19 or a Glock 23 as a first handgun.

Second recommendation would be a S&W M&P9 compact or a Springfield XD9 compact.

Good luck,
Easy

 

[Mr.Davis]

1. He really likes the simplicity of the Stoeger Coach Guns and wants to go with that. It's pretty cheap and as far as I can tell it's about as basic as it comes in terms of maintenance and training. Do you think this is a viable HD option or a mistake? My first reaction was to push for a pump action Mossberg but I also don't want to dissuade him and potentially have him end up with nothing.

I disagree with the Stoeger coach gun (even though I really want one )

With the Stoeger, he'll have two basic options - buy a model with or without external hammers. The model without external hammers won't be drop-safe if stored loaded, as the gun cocks automatically. If stored unloaded, it won't be effective as a home defense tool (IMO, a baseball bat makes a much better club ) If he gets the external hammer model, then he'll be safer, but will still have to deal with the limited two-shot capacity.

For the same or less money, I'd recommend that he gets a Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870 (BudsGunShop.com has police trade-ins for $299, with free shipping). That's better capacity and the tube can be kept loaded and with the chamber empty if he wants to make it totally drop safe.

(For anyone who's interested, I saw the Buds police trade in 870s the other day, and they look pretty cosmetically rough to me. The internals seem to be in nice shape, but they're visibly scuffed up even standing several feet away.)

 

[Shadow 7D]

Go to www.Boxotruth.com
great website where they shoot stuff and show what it does

As for what he wants, my advice is to take him to the range, let him shoot a pump, a double barrel, let him shoot an auto and a revolver, explain to him the advantages and disadvantages, them push for him to get training and eventually a CCW.

In the end, he has to be the one who uses or doesn't use what ever gun he gets, let him choose one, personally I would suggest a shotty and a .22.

Let him save up and buy what ever pistol he wants later, the .22 will let him learn the fundamentals now.

 

[Ithaca37]

If he wants a handgun he can get a good pistol for under $500. Revolvers are fine, but there is no reason to rule out an autoloader. Police trade in glocks are generally under $400 and in very good condition. There are numerous other options like the sig P250 and others.

As for shotguns, most of them will be under $400, so he should just go handle a bunch and see what he likes.

Glock 22 Gen. 3 $360
http://www.summitgunbroker.com/Glock_22.html

That would leave enough a couple mags and some ammo. The next thing he should when money permits is take a class.

 

[lebowski]

I think with a $500 budget, I think he'd be better off starting with one or the other, not both. Not only is getting just one gun cheaper to buy, but he'll better be able to focus his practice on just the one weapon. Also, he'll save money on the purchase price, but any accessories plus not having to stock two different types of ammo.

If he decides to start with the shotgun, I think a pump such as an 870 tactical or a mossberg would be a better option than a couch gun. Better capacity, and more set up for tactical/HD use (easier to attach a light, etc.). Also, I've never shot a stoeger but I imagine the small size + wood stock would recoil harder than a larger 870/mossberg with a good recoil pad.

If he decides to go with a pistol, I'd go with either a reliable auto in 9mm (such as a glock 19, but there are plenty of other viable options) or a revolver in .38 or .357/.38. I think your suggestion of a 686p is a great choice.


When he said the 686p was "too big" did he mean it didn't fit his hand comfortably or is he, like many first time shooters, under the mistaken impression that the physically large size of the gun makes it more difficult to shoot, and intimidated by this? Personally, I think larger handguns are easier to shoot and I only have medium sized hands.

 

[wmeSha]

On a $500 budget for a Shotgun and a Revolver, I believe I'd do:

1) H&R Pardner Pump 12ga, which Gun Tests Magazine liked, and which can be had for around $200.

2) S&W Model 64 (used), $250 from http://www.jgsales.com/product_info...s-condition/cPath/16_211_431/products_id/3104

 

[GEM]

With a $500 budget, I would first get him a good course of self-defense with a firearm. Then save up for a plain vanilla handgun like a SW Model 10 or a Glock 19.

Forget all the shotgun is a wonder weapon for the untrained rhetoric. It's an internet cliche.

 

[Mr.Davis]

GEM, it's certainly easier for a first timer to fire a long gun accurately than a handgun.

Most people on THR know that a shotgun doesn't spread to the size of a doorframe at across-the-room distances.

 

[GEM]

Manipulating a shotgun in close quarters is not easier than a handgun. Nor is managing recoil and follow up shots for beginners.

The OP MMV but I'm not a fan of the get a shotgun Sur Enuf crowd for newbies.

It is not a recommendation by the professional community.

Sure, most guns will work. But if we want to tell someone to do it reasonably, it's train and handgun. Then if you want a shotgun, train with using that in the house also.