This came up a while back...

[steveracer]

and today the sandstorm has cleared, and the cowards are hiding, so I have some time:
One of my guys here asked me about carrying and getting mugged. He says: What if the BG has a shotgun? What if he sneaks up on you?
I had conveniently already had this conversation a dozen times and came to this conclusion:
If he's holding a shotgun...
...his advantages are twofold. 1: he's holding the ultimate fight-stopper in his hands. 2: he's HOLDING the ultimate fight stopper IN HIS HANDS. (this advice is for any gun)
His only disadvantage is that he doesn't think you're going to kill him today.
As for condition white, could you sneak up on people in a parking structure with a shotgun? If you could, than someone else can. Could you do it to you? I could get past my own level of alertness, so I know someone else can.
Now, your safest bet is to let him win. Your smartest bet is to let him win. He gets the goods, and you lose.
Now, as history has shown, he might just want more, like your daughter or wife/girlfriend. You just gave him your wallet, now the pattern of giving him stuff is in place. What's next? Start saying no now?
If you don't want to give him ANYTHING, you have to be better than him. Are you? Could you (morality/psychology aside) get a man to give you whatever you wanted if you had a shotgun in your hands? Could you do it if he was armed, but not holding? If you could, then you have to assume that he can.
The only answer is YOU AND WHOEVER YOU ARE WITH MUST BE ARMED.
He's not taking both of you alive.
Let him go? He'll eventually hold up others, and maybe move up to murder/kidnapping. You can stop him, you must stop him. If not, oh well, but if you have the means and opportunity, and don't stop him, and his next victim is somebody's little girl, how will you feel? A lot worse than if you just shot him and ended his life of crime.
It isn't the money in your wallet. What if you had $500k on you? Would you shoot him then? That's what it will cost for him to spend the next ten years in prison. Minimum. That's your money, too. If you want to make it financial, fine. Half a mil to let him walk, IF the cops find him. If not, he'll just keep doing it.
There are some armed muggings here inside the wire from time to time. Despicable, of course, and impossible to prevent, unfortunately, but this is just how life is.
I hope you all are safe, and stay frosty!
Steve

 

[Phoenix_III]

Eh, the one thing I think of if they are alone =


Sure... 'take my girlfriend with you'. How would they weild the shotgun and her, effectively. As soon as they stop looking,, you are able to draw, etc... only problem would be multiple bg keeping you at weapons point while the other was allowed to disarm, etc... then you've got some trouble/thinking... =\

 

[steveracer]

our hypothetical perp is solo. He's doing two separate things (and I guess I should have mentioned this earlier):
One, he's hanging around places where YOU are in the light, and he's not.
Two, he's holding a sawed-off pump gun.
Not really pertinent for us here, as we are all armed all the time with both our primary and secondary weapons, and there are dozens of other armed guys everywhere you look, and these are the types who actually come to your aid when you call out.

 

[Cyclimus]

If it's me alone and him alone, he's got a bead on me and no matter how quick I draw, he'll be quicker on the trigger so my best options are to either close distance and go for a disarm or at least attempt to neutralize the shotgun by discharging it up, down, out, whatever if I can get a hand on it OR attempt to open distance knowing that the shotgun pattern will spread far more rapidly than normal - in this, distance is crucial. If neither is possible, I'll sacrifice my wallet by tossing it away to gain the time and distraction necessary to draw and engage - my wallet is kept in my right rear pocket, with my gun at 4 o'clock right in front of it.

I don't like the odds vs a sawed-off at close range, but it has weaknesses too.

 

[Tribal]

Fair fights are for suckers and for practice. Lying, dirty moves, and other "unsportsmanlike behavior" immediately become legit (which isn't always the same as "legal") when someone tries to assault you in this way.

 

[bogie]

Hand him the wallet, and ask him where you can buy a shotgun like that, because you wanna kill someone - or can he be rented? The instant his guard is down, shoot him.

 

[bwavec]

Give him what he wants.....and hope he hasn't already planned to kill you (leaving no witnesses to his dirty work).

When someone has committed themselves to violence, there isn't a whole lot you can do. They have surprise, initiative and (in this case) superior firepower. They have the upper hand. Your best option is to submit, and hope things don't get any worse.

Even while carrying, you are still vulnerable to someone who has the ability and the willingness to ensure that they have the upper hand.

Give the attacker what they want....there is little in your wallet that is worth your life in a situation where your adversary has the major tactical edge. Give them what they want...and hope that is enough to appease them...so that you still have your life afterwards.

 

[sm]

steveracer,

Excellent post as always by you sir.
I appreciate your sharing, and we are on the same page.

Sending best to you and yours sir.

Steve

 

[steveracer]

Thanks Steve.
My wife is of the opinion that closing the distance and biting off his face is the way to go, and this is precisely why I don't make her angry. Ever.
I think safety here is in numbers. Any of the guys I hang out with (or my wife) could smoke the guy when he's reaching for my wallet. None of these salty dogs are rattled by the lone gunman. However, you can't always have backup....
steve

 

[lions]

One distraction technique I have heard of is to look past him and say something to the effect of "No, its okay, I have it under control." The thinking here is that he will instinctively look behind him to see who you are talking to, giving you precious moments to draw and fire or close distance and disarm/attack. Which reminds me it is time to go work on my draw from concealment.

 

[sm]

None of these salty dogs are rattled by the lone gunman. However, you can't always have backup....

It is I that thanks you sir.

You bring up another point which you and yours know, I and others are aware of as well...

Criminals also have those that are not rattled by a lone gunman, or even more than one lone gunman.
These gunman can be LEOs, or Civilians with, or without CCW, and these salty dog criminals if you will, do not "react" ,or "respond" as many folks think they will.

Just because one has a gun, be they a good guy, or criminal, does not mean the other person is going to react or respond as many think or as teh Intrawebz says.

Reality trumps fantasy, falsehoods and fanclubs .


Stay safe, sending best.

 

[gallo]

Carry a throw away wallet with a couple of expired credit cards and a few small bills, and hope he settles for it. If not, the simple exchange will buy you a few seconds to move out of harms ways or maybe even draw. Any exchange with an armed fellow, especially one holding a shotgun, is a crap shoot. It's best to be intelligent about the situation.

 

[steveracer]

Good idea with the throw-away. Maybe a flash-bang in that pocket?
I mean, all's fair and whatnot.
Seriously, I doubt I'd close without a really GOOD distraction, but at this point, my main goal is get home tonight, and don't let this prick do his thing to my little sister when she gets off work, know what I mean?
Steve, quit calling me "sir".
Very Respectfully,
Steve
(Who is a lowly E-6, and has turned down the feeble attempts at being made a "sir" many, many times)