SSN Vet
Member
I'm curious just what all the SHTF scenario small game hunters plan on.
Living on Opossum? Raccoon? Maybe a dog or two?
Living on Opossum? Raccoon? Maybe a dog or two?
This is simply not true. The .357, with good ammo, has the SAME muzzle energy as the 30-30 (check out the Buffalo Bore or DoubleTap loads). Add the fact that there are good .357 180 grain hardcast loads moving at 1800 fps, and the .357 appears pretty good, at least out to 100 yards. Beyond 100 yards, true, the 30-30 is better (although most hunting back east is under 100 yards), but it really depends on the purpose of the rifle.
Sorry, saturno_v, I'm with Shawnee on the see-through scope rings. For me, any scope on a lever rifle needs to be as low as possible. See-through scope rings suck slimy, swimmer's-itch-infested pond water and spray it down the back of your neck.
I'm curious just what all the SHTF scenario small game hunters plan on.
Living on Opossum? Raccoon? Maybe a dog or two?
suck slimy, swimmer's-itch-infested pond water and spray it down the back of your neck.
I don't see how a 180 .357 at 1800 FPS is equal to a 170 .30-30 at 2200 FPS.
Yes, yes, and yes. Anything that moves. Tweety birds, anything. If you're hunting for your subsistence life, it would all taste good and provide nourishment.
A .22 mag or .38 special carbine would be about the perfect small game subsistence rifle. Big enough to take small deer with a good shot. Small enough to not destroy too much meat on small-medium tasty mammals & birds.
Today 10:23 AM
Hey, it's a metaphor. saturno_v seems to have enjoyed it, and that was my goal. Oh, and:Premium Sauces said:Hmmmm, kaaaay - that's ONE way to put it.
saturno_v, your wife will probably swipe it from you and be delighted.saturno_v said:...you just offered me the best excuse to finally buy that 22!!!!....I warn you, my wife is gonna "love" you...
When we get to reloading, we're getting more real.
So, suppose you were part of a nomadic group, moving away from natural disaster, carrying carbines in the .30 range.
Which of those reloading setups would you carry?
Not to hijack the thread, but you won't get too far doubting Buffalo Bore's numbers. The only specialty 30-30 ammo with improved performance, as far as I know, is Hornady LeverEvolution, and that has 160 grain loads at 2400 fps. Still, the Buffalo Bore .357 ammo has 158 grain slugs at 2150, not far off those higher 30-30 numbers. Sure, Buffalo Bore and Doubletap is expensive, but still less than LeverEvolution.Probably with overpressure and specialized powder some niche ammo manufacturer can get interesting numbers out of a .357 (still not on par with a regular 30-30)
Not to hijack the thread, but you won't get too far doubting Buffalo Bore's numbers. The only specialty 30-30 ammo with improved performance, as far as I know, is Hornady LeverEvolution, and that has 160 grain loads at 2400 fps. Still, the Buffalo Bore .357 ammo has 158 grain slugs at 2150, not far off those higher 30-30 numbers. Sure, Buffalo Bore and Doubletap is expensive, but still less than LeverEvolution.
Additionally, LeverEvolution in .357 is on its way, with an improved ballistic coefficient. Now, Buffalo Bore is coming out with 30-30 ammo, and maybe it will blow everything away, but until that time, the question is still debatable.
Finally, the .357 ammo variety is much wider than 30-30, with light .38 ammo for plinking, up to 200 grain hardcast for boar. When you add the fact that the .357 lever gun can be more compact (the 1892 action is very compact), have a greater capacity, and can shoot very cheap .38 ammo for plinking, there is a very good argument for the .357.
Believe me, math is my game.
And that's a fact. You can find 357 ammo that's loaded over-spec. You can find 30/30 ammo that's loaded under spec. But there is no possible way for 357 to equal 30/30 in power when both are loaded to spec.If you stay withing SAAMI specs there is no way that a 357 could get even close to a 30-30 in terms of ballistics.
Sure, Buffalo Bore and Doubletap is expensive, but still less than LeverEvolution.
The 30-30 is a 150 yd or closer gun