Fitz Special project

[JohnnyCremains]

Remllez,

Thank you. You hit the nail on the head. I've had many revolvers in less than great condition that I decided to modify. My modifications are always things that used to be done a long time ago and aren't really practical in the modern gunfighting world. But I love these old guns and not having the thousands of dollars to spend on an authentic original gun I opt to take abused older guns and make recreations for my own collection.

Some of you may remember seeing this Police Positive special that I modified. There were very few of these made by Colt and the only one I've seen a picture of belongs to a Billionaire. So I took a worn old Police Positive Special also from 1915 and made one. This gun was around $160 bucks or so. I've got many hours of work into it. The nickel plating job cost me one large loaded pizza with jalapenos. The pearl grips came off a cut down Police Positive I bought on Gunbroker for $300

 

[Jim Watson]

I recall that a real factory Fitzgerald Colt typically came with the top of the bobbed hammer checkered to allow cocking by starting the hammer back with the trigger, then getting a thumb on the checkering to bring it to full cock. This was commonly recommended in the gunzines and books of my younger days. If you are the sort to live dangerously with a guardless trigger, cocking a spurless hammer is not a big step.

If you want an opposing opinion from the period, try Chic Gaylord. He was not much in favor of revolvers altered for "an affair of honor in a telephone booth."

 

[dom1104]

If a cut-away trigger gaurd should get bent upward only slightly, a thing that is very easily done without being noticed untill too late, the gun is hopelessly out of commission for immediate use.

It is my honest opinion that the protection of the trigger gaurd on double-action guns is worth very much more to anyone than any advantage, real or imaginary, that can come from mutilating it by cutting it off for any purpose whatever.

--Ed McGivern

 

[Dr.Rob]

Neat conversion. I'd find a checkered trigger and checker the top of the hammer.

 

[SaxonPig]

Old Fuff- Yes, I have seen the elephant on several occasions. I have drawn down on opponents three times. Once I pulled my 1911 in response to a threat of violence. Twice shots were fired. One time a warning shot sent a pack of thieves running and in the last case an armed felon went to the morgue.

This doesn't make me an expert on gunfighting but even I can recognize that butchering a gun by removing the trigger guard does NOTHING to improve handling qualities and does make it more difficult to maintain control of the weapon if the grip on it slips from moisture or strenuous activity or if fighting to retain it with a criminal attacker trying to wrest it away.

I have never read any recognized firearms expert advocate butchering a revolver in this fashion. In my non-expert opinion this modification is unwise and potentially dangerous.

 

[Old Fuff]

If a cut-away trigger guard should get bent upward only slightly, a thing that is very easily done without being noticed until too late, the gun is hopelessly out of commission for immediate use.

This sort of problem is often cited, but while it might have happened, none of the more famous users ever seemed to have it occur. It's not as easy to bend the remaining guard because the tip of the trigger will prevent the guard from bending upward far enough to take a set, and the width of the cylinder offers some protection against a sideward blow. If bending the trigger guard was any substantial issue by now it would have a documented history - that it hasn't. Clearly, if Colt had received reports of bent trigger guards they would have stopped building them.

It is my honest opinion that the protection of the trigger guard on double-action guns is worth very much more to anyone than any advantage, real or imaginary, that can come from mutilating it by cutting it off for any purpose whatever.

Yup, as I pointed out before, anyone can have an opinion about anything, but I have been more impressed by the opinions and endorsements offered by men that had actual gun fighting experience. Of course it should be noted that others with equal backgrounds often didn't approve of the platform. This doesn't mean that either side was right or wrong, just that they had a choice. Does anyone here believe that men such as Charles Askins Jr., Rex Applegate, Wm. Fairbairn, Texas Ranger Capt. Manuel Gonzaullas and others who often faced lethal risk would have tolerated any feature in their personal armament that was hazardous?

 

[Old Fuff]

I have never read any recognized firearms expert advocate butchering a revolver in this fashion.

Well if you look into his history you'll find that J.H. FitzGerald was considered to be an authority at the time, and a senior employee of the Colt Company to boot. Of course Charles Askins Jr. and Rex Applegate (to name just two) had next to no knowledge of either handguns or gun fighting...

I have personally examined a small number of Colt manufactured Fitz Specials, and will say that none of them appeared to have been butchered. In fact the workmanship was impeccable...

 

[dom1104]

This sort of problem is often cited, but while it might have happened, none of the more famous users ever seemed to have it occur. It's not as easy to bend the remaining guard because the tip of the trigger will prevent the guard from bending upward far enough to take a set, and the width of the cylinder offers some protection against a sideward blow. If bending the trigger guard was any substantial issue by now it would have a documented history - that it hasn't. Clearly, if Colt had received reports of bent trigger guards they would have stopped building them.



Yup, as I pointed out before, anyone can have an opinion about anything, but I have been more impressed by the opinions and endorsements offered by men that had actual gun fighting experience. Of course it should be noted that others with equal backgrounds often didn't approve of the platform. This doesn't mean that either side was right or wrong, just that they had a choice. Does anyone here believe that men such as Charles Askins Jr., Rex Applegate, Wm. Fairbairn, Texas Ranger Capt. Manuel Gonzaullas and others who often faced lethal risk would have tolerated any feature in their personal armament that was hazardous?

Sorry I forgot to attribute that quote to the author.

It was Ed McGivern. He has a small chapter in his book about Fitz revolvers.

His general opinion is that the human hand is no so clumsy as to require the modification, and that its benefits are mostly hypothetical.

Couldnt say myself, I dont have his experiance with a revolver.

 

[SaxonPig]

To my knowledge Fitzgerald was an exhibition shooter who never served in law enforcement or was ever involved in a gunfight so I question granting him expert status on designing fighting guns. This butchering became fashionable and sexy for some insane reason but was and is a serious mistake.

If you or anyone else wants to ruin a gun this way go ahead. Your gun. But it's not wise... or attractive.

 

[Cosmoline]

What exactly is the hazard that the full guard prevents in DA revolvers? Objects can still press on the trigger if you're careless with or without a guard in front.

 

[Old Fuff]

His general opinion is that the human hand is no so clumsy as to require the modification, and that its benefits are mostly hypothetical.

Ed. McGivern didn't think much of the Fitz Special, although both men knew each other. As alternative McGivern took a 5" .38/44 Smith & Wesson Heavy Duty made on that company's large "N" frame, cut off the entire guard, and then had a substantially larger one welded into its place.

While this was an answer, it didn't work very well as a pocket revolver (which the Fitz Special was supposed to be), but to each his own...

 

[Swing]

Wowza. Neat project.

 

[Fat Boy]

Well, in my opinion that is a firearm I would enjoy adding to my collection. There is something appealing to me about a gun with character, and that revolver has character big time

To each his own- thats just my 2 cents..

 

[Quoheleth]

Johnny - that is one of the most beautiful Colts I have ever seen. Very nice!

Q

 

[VA27]

You brought an old Colt back to life, so good on ya! I think it looks swell and I'd be proud to own it.

As to the naysayers in this thread, all I can say is: "Picky, picky!"

 

[skidder]

Interesting....I'm just soaking up all this history I never knew. Thanks for the thread and the pictures of your project. I myself love a good gun project, and what you have now is unique and sets it apart from the pack. Down the road someones going to cherish the gun and the story about how their Great Grandpa modified this gun to reflect an era of history he was fond of. Thanks for sharing and you did a great job!

 

[JSpear]

Great gun!! I would be proud to have that in my collection!

 

[76shuvlinoff]

Ya see I've got this old 4" beat up Taurus......

 

[JohnnyCremains]

Here's a couple of originals that were auctioned at Julias last october. A Police Positive Special and a New Service. These were far from hack jobs but expertly built factory guns

UPDATE: for those interested the Detective Special Fitz sold for $10,350. The New Service was unsold as it most likely didn't meet reserve.






Yes that's my hand

 

[CraigC]

I have never read any recognized firearms expert advocate butchering a revolver in this fashion. In my non-expert opinion this modification is unwise and potentially dangerous.

You don't read much, do you???

As usual, there are purists who cry foul when any firearm is modified from its original factory configuration or finish.

 

[OldCavSoldier]

The beautiful thing about being an American is that as an American, we can do anything we want to with our possessions. If we want to Fitz a wheelgun, then we can do it and can do it without any adverse actions other than opinions.

Personally, *I* would never Fitz an old revolver. My choice is to restore an old gun to like-new condition and then shoot the bejeesus out of it... Of course, if the condition of the gun is that it better lends itself to the Fitz configuration, then, why not?

I have a 1921 Police Positive and a 1954 Official Police that are currently at different stages of restoration/refinishing and cannot wait to take them to the range when done and put some rounds through them. The last one I completed, I could barely get outta the club's range I had so many guys (and a few gals) who offered me far more money than the gun was really worth. I did not sell and continue to "wow" them when I shoot a smiley face into a silhouette target at 35 feet.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Nice looking "Fitz Job" on the Army Special!

I don't own a Fitz style revolver but really like them.

I also like the early 1911 Colts that have the trigger guard removed.

Guns modified in this style have a cool factor that is hard to surpass.

I've got no problem with modified classic handguns. Off topic, and not a Fitz, but my modified 1917 Colt .45 ACP US Property would attest to that if it could talk.

 

[CraigC]

Love that 1917!

 

[aryfrosty]

Sure thing.

The total Fitz conversion with all of its features was supposed to result in a revolver that could be quickly employed and brought into action in a close distance emergency. This is not a situation where it's likely one would need or use the single-action option. The hammer was bobbed because of the presumed use of side pocket carry, or in any case concealed under some kind of garment where a conventional hammer spur could get snagged. However, as Sam pointed out, cocking a bobbed hammer is more difficult - especially under stress or in a hurry - then with the hammer spur intact, and can (and has) led to an unintentional discharge. I personally know of two such instances, and neither would have happened if the revolver and been modified to double-action-only.

While the Fitz Special snubby is well known, many are unaware that Colt and others somestimes made a partial conversion, where some features were included, but not all. Perhaps the best known was Col. Askins', Colt New Service .38 Special that had a 4" barrel, King custom rib and sights, and a cut-away trigger guard - but no changes to the hammer or rounding of the butt. It was carried in a regular Border Patrol holster of the kind issued issued at the tme.

In the hands of a competent and practiced double-action shooter the Fitz was an effective weapon at distances up to - and sometimes further - then 50 yards. This was much more then the designer intended, and brings the need of a single-action option into question, especially when it adds unnecessary risk.

The Fitz Special was not intended to be any kind of general service or target gun. It was and is, a special purpose weapon and nothing else.

I second Old Fuff. Fitzgerald probably could match wits with you about his modifications. You do have a right to your opinion. Me, too! Mine is a lot of opinions are like rectums and for the same reasons.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Nice looking conversion. I read FitzGerld's book years ago but never had any inclination towards modifying any gun to that configuration. I have changed grips and have done an action job, but that's it.