?FIVE? Gun Conditions?

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Good Ol' Boy

Good Ol' Boy

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Just ran across this vid on YT and forced myself to watch the whole thing.

I'm familiar with Lenny but hadn't seen him talk about stuff like this.

I dont agree with his opinion on carry and you might not either, or you may, but that's not what this thread is about.

I've always been under the impression there were 3 conditions of a guns status in relation to being loaded or not. Probably the same three most of you are familiar with.

Lenny claims there are 4 but then adds a condition 0 so I read that as 5. Either way I was completely unaware this was a thing. Condition 4, a completely empty gun with a loaded mag stored somewhere else????? Isnt that just a stored gun?


Anyhow I was just curious if anyone else had heard of this and your thoughts.


 
I can see an unloaded gun with a loaded mag elsewhere as being a different readiness condition compared to an unloaded gun with only unloaded magazines. The difference in time and effort required to get one into firing condition compared to the other would likely be significant. Grabbing a loaded mag from one place and the gun from another, inserting the mag and racking the slide is a lot different from having to load a magazine first.

That said, I think it's taking things to more of an extreme than was really intended when the original 3 Conditions were set forth. I mean, do we add in fractional conditions depending on how far away the magazine is stored from the gun?
 
I agree with your assessment about "how ridiculous can we get with this" but IMO his "condition 4" is my threshold of ridiculous.

So if you have a completely empty gun in your speed safe on top of the end table by your bed and a loaded mag in the top drawer you're in "condition 4". Is there anyone out there that would really honestly feel prepared in that scenario?

To me that sounds more like how folks would STORE their guns. Empty gun in the safe with some loaded mags somewhere in there.

IDK just my thoughts on "condition 4".
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
Just ran across this vid on YT and forced myself to watch the whole thing.

I'm familiar with Lenny but hadn't seen him talk about stuff like this.

I dont agree with his opinion on carry and you might not either, or you may, but that's not what this thread is about.

I've always been under the impression there were 3 conditions of a guns status in relation to being loaded or not. Probably the same three most of you are familiar with.

Lenny claims there are 4 but then adds a condition 0 so I read that as 5. Either way I was completely unaware this was a thing. Condition 4, a completely empty gun with a loaded mag stored somewhere else????? Isnt that just a stored gun?


Anyhow I was just curious if anyone else had heard of this and your thoughts.


Click to expand...

Barney Fife == Condition 4.
 
Daveboone said:
Condition 6: Don't have a gun, want to get one, but afraid of the noise and potentially shooting self in foot
Click to expand...

That’s “Condition 7”.

“Condition 6” is having the firearm and the ammunition locked in a separate safes, with the magazines loaded.

“Condition 6b” is having the magazines unloaded, while locked in separate safes...
:D
 
I was under the impression that the 5 conditions (0-4) were identified by Jeff Cooper for describing the readiness of the 1911 pistol.
 
hso said:
Think about laws requiring the ammunition and the firearm to be carried in separate compartments of a vehicle driving this.
Click to expand...
I know of one fellow who keeps a round chambered but the magazine separate.
His reason was/is that since the pistol has a magazine safety it was a good compromise when the grandkids were around.
 
Kevin5098 said:
I was under the impression that the 5 conditions (0-4) were identified by Jeff Cooper for describing the readiness of the 1911 pistol.
Click to expand...
Quick web search turns up two relevant articles.
According to American Rifleman in
Conditions of Readiness for the 1911 Pistol
by Jim Wilson - Thursday, March 26, 2015
Cooper gave three conditions for 1911 carry status.

And over in The Truth About Guns, in
The 5 Handgun Carry Conditions – Which One Do You Use?
BY STAFF WRITER |APR 01, 2019
they attribute all five conditions to Cooper, noting that Condition 4 (empty chamber, no magazine inserted, and hammer down) is actually a storage condition, not carry; and that Condition 0 (round chambered, a magazine is inserted, and the hammer is cocked with the safety off) does not apply to the 1911 because of the grip safety.
 
Craig_VA said:
Quick web search turns up two relevant articles.
According to American Rifleman in
Conditions of Readiness for the 1911 Pistol
by Jim Wilson - Thursday, March 26, 2015
Cooper gave three conditions for 1911 carry status.

And over in The Truth About Guns, in
The 5 Handgun Carry Conditions – Which One Do You Use?
BY STAFF WRITER |APR 01, 2019
they attribute all five conditions to Cooper, noting that Condition 4 (empty chamber, no magazine inserted, and hammer down) is actually a storage condition, not carry; and that Condition 0 (round chambered, a magazine is inserted, and the hammer is cocked with the safety off) does not apply to the 1911 because of the grip safety.
Click to expand...


Here is a video of Cooper himself describing 4 conditions for the 1911 and condition 0 for DA semi-auto pistols.

 
Until just a few years ago, the de facto only legal way to carry a handgun in California was to carry it openly, and unloaded. The law did not prohibit also carrying a loaded magazine.

But, yes, the state finally nixed that little glimmer, too.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
Lenny claims there are 4 but then adds a condition 0 so I read that as 5. Either way I was completely unaware this was a thing. Condition 4, a completely empty gun with a loaded mag stored somewhere else????? Isnt that just a stored gun?
Click to expand...
Yeah, Condition 4 has always been one of the conditions as far as I know, at least since I learned it in the Marines in 1997. And Condition 0 is a semi-official version of Condition 1, the difference being that the safety is off.

Like @Kevin5098 pointed out, those 5 conditions have been around at least as long as whenever that Jeff Cooper video was recorded.
 
Jan Stevenson once made up a lot of silly "conditions of readiness" in his gunzine column. But it was to make the count come out right:

Magazine loaded, chamber empty, hammer down, safety engaged, in a flap holster with the flap buckled down.
Condition 13.
This was really the way German police carried their .32 PPs. When the Baader Meinhof Gang and the Red Army Faction got active, the .32s were replaced by 9mms... a lot of them submachine guns.
 
hso said:
Think about laws requiring the ammunition and the firearm to be carried in separate compartments of a vehicle driving this.
Click to expand...
Or a foster family which is required to store both firearm and ammunition is separate LOCKED areas. That was my situation for well over a year. So, gun in safe, magazine in locked medicine cabinet sitting on top of safe. Keypad safe, key locked medicine cabinet. BS rules, but it’s not the worst of them. They also wanted a list of firearms in my home. What they got was “22 handgun, 22 rifle, 12ga shotgun, 270 rifle, 38 caliber handgun”. They didn’t need to know that the list was incomplete, or that it skipped over the quantities of each... but yes it was frustrating to know that they were intentionally disarming me “for the sake of the children” by rule without consideration that children in circumstances like mine are at an even higher risk. They also questioned the reloading stuff being unlocked... good thing they didn’t see my powder box.

So is that setup condition 6? 7?
 
Cooper was always at odds with the Army about conditions of readiness.

Goes to show that more than one set of standards means there are no standards.
 
Seems like Glock pistols and the like (safe action trigger w/o thumb safety) do not have a condition zero.

Hard to standardize the conditions for an ever evolving mechanics.
 
Good Ol' Boy said:
J
Lenny claims there are 4 but then adds a condition 0 so I read that as 5. Either way I was completely unaware this was a thing. Condition 4, a completely empty gun with a loaded mag stored somewhere else????? Isnt that just a stored gun?
Click to expand...

Too many Trainers and gun writers try to reinvent the wheel and put their stamp on it to gain publicity and attention. Pay no mind to Attention Whores like him.

There are 4-Rules; no more, no less. Memorize and use them, and you will never have a safety issue.
 
Hey now.... What condition is it in if the hammer's somewhere, the safety's there too and I have the factory installed hammer lock engaged with the key in a deposit box?

Condition 9E.... 11§ or maybe the condition formerly known as; 12px-Prince_logo.svg.png ?

If I've come to be holding it;

Is it loaded?

Is a round in the chamber?

is it on any form of *safe*?

After that - quick draw scenarios and running gunfights with cartel operatives not withstanding.... I don't really care.

These renditions of conditions twist my mind to positions - causing need of relief

The hammer and the trigger issues grow ever bigger - begging points of belief

If the ammo and the gun are collocated for fun - I'll beg the leave of the thief

Just a second or three, I'll be ready for thee and toss your way some real grief.


Todd.
 
Kevin Rohrer said:
There are 4-Rules; no more, no less. Memorize and use them, and you will never have a safety issue.
Click to expand...
Maybe for you. The rest of us have a larger world, and are aware that there are more than one set of "rules".

(We're not actually talking about the safety rules, but there are more than one set of them, too.)

The existence of more than one set of standards means there are no standards.
 
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