FL Congressman says ATF planning to ban pistol braces

[D.B. Cooper]

Think they are going to go after pistol braces now?

I saw this coming for a while. I never understood how they were ever legal to begin with. I also don't understand how a Mossberg Shockwave is legal. (I expect that will be the next ATF Fiat.) I'm less concerned with what is being banned and far more concerned with who is doing the banning. Only an elected legislature should have this kind of authority; no agency should have the authority to create laws, and only the courts should be allowed to interpret them.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

All anyone needs to hunt is a thurty-thurty.

Hey! Don't forget your double barrel shotgun for bird hunting.

I got a shotgun, a rifle, and a four wheel drive, and a country boy can survive. COUNTRY FOLKS CAN SURVI-I-I-I-I-I--I-I-VE! (with respect to Bocephus.)

 

[MistWolf]

What would be the legal effect if a person had an adjustable brace that they pinned so that the distance from the end of it to the trigger does not exceed 13.5"?

Keep in mind the 13.5" limitation is an advisory, not a regulation or policy.

To all declaring braces are work arounds and act shocked the BATF handled the classification thereof by easing up on draconian enforcement, the commissars have you well trained.

 

[748]

Imagine if 700,000 x $200 braces = $140000000 was used to overturn stupid gun laws.

Yeah a campaign with that much money could undo most of the NFA.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Yeah a campaign with that much money could undo most of the NFA.

I doubt it. I know money talks and 140 million is a lot of talking, but, at the end of the day, you gotta get it past Pelosi and a Democrat controlled House. Not going to happen.

 

[748]

Timing is everything.

 

[buck460XVR]

Some people use the brace as an arm brace to shoot their pistol one-handed.

Of course they do.....kinda why the "braces" were allowed in the first place. But they and the shooters have evolved them into shoulder fired and thus they fall into this.....

Short-barreled rifle (SBR) is a legal designation in the United States, referring to a shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm), or a handgun fitted with a buttstock and a barrel of less than 16 inches length.

Again, I don't agree with the SBR restricitons. They are archaic laws enacted back when folks were afraid rifles and their power/accuracy could be easily hidden if they had sawed off barrels and no stocks. With today's modern handguns/ammo and legal CWC, the law seems a moot point. That does not mean folks are not intentionally trying to circumvent the law. It is obvious they are. No different than "bump" stocks. If the restrictions on SBRs were lifted, there'd be no such thing as a "brace".
.

 

[badkarmamib]

The problem we should all have is the BATF issued a letter stating they were acceptable. 10,000's sold and taxes collected on the sale of them and now they want to change their minds. If any one besides the Feds where to do this no way would it be legal.

Yep, but that is the exact chain of events that led to the current situation regarding bump stocks. Which is why gun owners would be wise to quit throwing the smallest group of us under the bus, in the belief that it will placate those wishing to take all Americans' freedoms.

 

[P5 Guy]

All anyone needs to hunt is a thurty-thurty.

Real men hunt with pointy sticks.

 

[bearcreek]

Of course they do.....kinda why the "braces" were allowed in the first place. But they and the shooters have evolved them into shoulder fired and thus they fall into this.....

Fastest "evolution" in history too. Can we still say "evolved" if it happened instantaneously?

 

[Ed Ames]

Fastest "evolution" in history too. Can we still say "evolved" if it happened instantaneously?

Why would you want to?

Let’s be real here instead of trying to show how clever we are: pistol braces started out as a way to help stabilize an AR pistol when used one-handed, and they have never changed from that. The use didn’t “evolve” any more than amputees grew replacement limbs.

At the same time, people constantly seek out new ways to be more accurate with firearms. That ranges from accessories like bipods, to different shooting positions, to breathing techniques and anything else they can figure. If there is a physical way to hold a gun that makes accurate shooting easier, people will figure it out and do it. If the particular handgun has a receiver extension out the back, that extension is going to be braced against whatever is handy. If that extension has stuff attached, that attachment is likewise going to be used to brace during firing. Put against a wall or tree stump or groin or whatever.

If bracing a pistol against your body means that it’s no longer intended for one handed operation, you are starting down a path of no more AR pistols at all because the buffer tube alone can be braced against your body. You are walking yourself into other restrictions as well.

 

[Demi-human]

To all declaring braces are work arounds and act shocked the BATF handled the classification thereof by easing up on draconian enforcement, the commissars have you well trained.

I was typing this same thing when I fell asleep last night. Oh, how free we think we are.


Are all these humans shocked they are “allowed” to have televisions?

When in first found out there was a two hundred dollar fine on ballistically handicapping a rifle to fit in a Camry, I was shocked!

Four Grants,($200) just to be allowed to over pay for the simplest shapes to make on a lathe, so you may be courteous to your neighbors and protect your health? That is dumb!

Five dollars to make a safety cane that shoot .22 for killing snakes? Or even for removing excess stock and barrel for a shotgun? Oppression! It’s MY shotgun!

And worse, all of this is imposed and inconvenienced on the Lawful Citizens. Not punishment for criminal acts!

The fact that it is default registration of rifles and no one seems to care, ludicrous!

But these are weird times. I was told I don’t support the 2A because I have a brace on my AR...

 

[Howland937]

Real men hunt with pointy sticks.

Pointy sticks are for sissies with no hand strength.

 

[Elkins45]

If one million braces have been sold, and this particular model represents 700,000 of them?

I'm curious which maker has sold 700K braces. Sig? Shockwave?

Something about this doesn't smell right to me.

 

[Demi-human]

Pointy sticks are for sissies with no hand strength.

Sheesh, Stick-flickers...right?

I'm curious which maker has sold 700K braces. Sig? Shockwave?

Something about this doesn't smell right to me.

Yes, but it is more the thought exercise.
It’s not like a senator brought it up on the floor...

 

[Elkins45]

Here's the actual text of the letter regarding numbers:

Since ATF’s initial determination, over two million arm braces have been sold to gun owners. Additionally, hundreds of firearm manufacturers have sold over one million firearms pre-configured with arm braces. (Emphasis added)
​

So we're talking about 700K out of 3,000000. That's 23% What model owns 23% of the arm brace market?

Pointy sticks are for sissies with no hand strength.

Sheesh, Stick-flickers...right?

Stick Fudd alert!

 

[GEM]

Let's drop the funny hunting cracks, please. Thank you.

Does the ATF respond to the President? They did on bump stocks. So have Wayne LaP. call him up and tell him not to allow this. Of course, the story is that the NRA told him to ban bump stocks to avoid a total AWB after Las Vegas.

Since SCOTUS and Congress seem NOT to want to do anything pro active for gun rights, Shockwaves and braces might just go away. Bury them in the cellar in the space reserved for your semi rifles.

 

[JERRY]

so will it be $200 once or $200 every year to keep your fin stabilizer brace on your AR pistol?

 

[old lady new shooter]

Here's the actual text of the letter regarding numbers:

Since ATF’s initial determination, over two million arm braces have been sold to gun owners. Additionally, hundreds of firearm manufacturers have sold over one million firearms pre-configured with arm braces. (Emphasis added)
​

So we're talking about 700K out of 3,000000. That's 23% What model owns 23% of the arm brace market?





Stick Fudd alert!

Probably the one the manufacturers include with the gun.

 

[old lady new shooter]

Of course they do.....kinda why the "braces" were allowed in the first place. But they and the shooters have evolved them into shoulder fired and thus they fall into this.....

Again, I don't agree with the SBR restricitons. They are archaic laws enacted back when folks were afraid rifles and their power/accuracy could be easily hidden if they had sawed off barrels and no stocks. With today's modern handguns/ammo and legal CWC, the law seems a moot point. That does not mean folks are not intentionally trying to circumvent the law. It is obvious they are. No different than "bump" stocks. If the restrictions on SBRs were lifted, there'd be no such thing as a "brace".
.

If they make braces illegal, then people who use them to shoot one-handed can't have them either, how fair is that? There have to be a lot of veterans in that group, who gave an arm for our country and have the brace in order to still be able to shoot with the other arm.

 

[Texas10mm]

so will it be $200 once or $200 every year to keep your fin stabilizer brace on your AR pistol?

The NFA is a one time payment to obtain the tax stamp for that one item.

 

[jmorris]

They did it with bump stocks and nobody gave a damn because they didn't own a bump stock or thought they were a stupid toy.

In that case they will do it with braces too....then semiautomatic firearms (figured they would have been next anyway because they had been bumpfired for decades before bumpfire stocks even existed)...then...

 

[jmorris]

so will it be $200 once or $200 every year to keep your fin stabilizer brace on your AR pistol?

As above it’s a one time tax but in the case of Trumps bumpstock EO it made it illegal to possess. Destroy personal property without compensation or become a criminal, those were the owners two choices.

If they make braces illegal, then people who use them to shoot one-handed can't have them either, how fair is that?

Fair? That isn’t a factor in the calculation. What’s the vote count of those effected and/or political push in the media? Manufacture them in rainbow colors and market them only to the LGBT community, then they might have a chance...

 

[AlexanderA]

The NFA is a one time payment to obtain the tax stamp for that one item.

That's right. If a "pistol brace" is declared by ATF to be a "stock," the way it would work is this:

1. You would remove the brace from the gun.
2. You would file a Form 1 and pay the $200 "making" tax to create an SBR out of the "pistol."
3. You would wait (months) for the tax stamp to come back from the ATF.
4. At that point, you could reinstall the brace. But, why would you want to? You could just as well install a regular stock. 99% of the braces would end up going in the trash.

The effect of all this would be to make pistol braces just as useless and illegal as bump stocks.

 

[Howland937]

The bigger point is that there are laws in place regarding how a person can legally use their firearms. Types and accessories should NOT MATTER as long as you're using it for lawful purposes. They don't put governors on cars to prohibit speeding...you break the limit, you get punished. People would not tolerate these prohibitive laws in any other aspects of their life.