Flame suit on: 22LR semi-auto for home defense.

[Ironicaintit]

First rule: have a gun.

If an older lady can only reliably and confidently wield a 22LR, then so be it. The first rule is satisfied, and bad guys with any lick of sense aren't going to stare down the barrel while debating which caliber it is.

 

[Orion8472]

My 2 cents....

No one wants ANY sized hole in them.

I've had as many failure to fire episodes with center rife rounds than I have with 22lr. I use quality 22lr though.

Use what you are comfortable with. Maybe later, a larger caliber will become an option.

 

[mshootnit]

I read an article about a sheriff that was confronted by a guy with a hand gun in hand.

The sheriff drew his 357 magnum revolver and Emptyed his gun (6 rounds) into the guys center mass at point blank range. The perp then raised his gun and shot the sheriff dead.

The perp survived! So I guess based on this encounter should I assume that the 357 magnum would be a bad choice?

This is kind of a crass response to what I posted. Have you ever held an unconscious shooting victim in your arms right after she was shot?
I guess I am just asking for a little reverance when I share trauma that I lived through.

 

[John Joseph]

At college I had a .22 pistol (Colt Woodsman Huntsman)
It was my only gun and I pulled it and fired on a rapist who had attacked a nursing student at my apartment complex..
He left pronto.
Criminals generally don't expect an armed response.
The Campus Police Chief later told me I should get a bigger gun.

If a .22 is what you've got, heck yes use it for defense.

 

[MedWheeler]

mshootnit writes:

This is kind of a crass response to what I posted. Have you ever held an unconscious shooting victim in your arms right after she was shot?
I guess I am just asking for a little reverance when I share trauma that I lived through.

To be honest, I saw your post yesterday, and thought that typing it here, in this thread, and using it as an example of why, "based on (your) example", you'd use something else, was crass in itself. You didn't post it to "share trauma". You posted it to use her as an example, which is hardly reverent. (I could have included a very similar example from my own life.)

 

[MachIVshooter]

I'm gonna go against the grain here in recommending the PMR-30 or FN Five-seveN. More effective than a .22 LR, yes, but both have beyond obnoxious muzzle blast & flash. I love my PMR, but I would NOT want to discharge it indoors, especially in a dark environment. That thing barks more than a .40 or .45, on par with a .357 mag.

If I were tasked with recommending a HD pistol for someone so recoil sensitive they can't even handle a full size 9mm, I'd go with one of the higher quality .22 LR pistols using 45 gr. subsonic hollowpoints. No cheap or subcompact pistols; something reliable like the Ruger Mk, Browning Buckmark, S&W 22A, Beretta Neos, etc.

 

[Water-Man]

Get her a Ruger LCR .327. No hammer to cock and the trigger is manageable. Load it with 32 Long.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Using the PMR-30 indoors would probably be deafening -- in every sense of the word -- which is why I keep two sets of electronic muffs near my HD weapon, used whenever the gun is accessed. Pretty bright flash, too!

Almost any gun indoors, particularly in a confined area, would likely do severe damage to the shooter's (and anyone else nearby) ears. I think most folks don't worry about that -- but I do.

(I suffered from tinnitus for a number of years due to insufficient ear protection -- I had ear protection, but they weren't good enough.. I eventually got better gear and now I pay a lot more attention to ear protection than I once did.)

 

[HisSoldier]

I gave my wife an AR, she can work the charging handle easy but not the slide of a 1911. Of course she could leave the 1911 in condition one,,, but the chances of her hitting inside a house distance with the AR is better.
A lady holding a .22LR is a" fur piece" from an unarmed old woman, and no thug wants to look at a gun of any kind pointed at them when they are expecting an unarmed little old lady.

 

[Gun Master]

First rule: have a gun.

If an older lady can only reliably and confidently wield a 22LR, then so be it. The first rule is satisfied, and bad guys with any lick of sense aren't going to stare down the barrel while debating which caliber it is.

Go Marlin Model 60 !

 

[TimboKhan]

Generally, the best answer on this frequently debated question is this: for a person that requires low recoil for whatever reason, it's an option. Not a great option, but a better than a sharp stick option. If you just have it in your head that a .22 can be awesome, it is not. No solid reason to carry a .22 self defense gun if you can choose otherwise.

 

[Danoobie]

The Five seveN is pricey, but it's a great shooter. Gelatin tests seem to
contradict field data, which shows it as very lethal. Go figure.

 

[CDW4ME]

22lr/380/38 snub aint my preferred self or home defense.
My LCP 380 produces more felt recoil than Kahr PM9 and the 380 lacks power (160# KE vs 345-400#)
5 shot snub, again has a lot of recoil for the capacity and power (maybe 200# KE), PM9 is still better.
The minimum is more like 9mm unless I must wear dress pants and a tucked in shirt (work clothes, no other time).

For somebody that can't handle a Glock 19, rather than drop down to 22lr for home defense, pistol grip .410 shotgun
I got a Mossberg .410 pistol grip couple years ago and my boys enjoyed shooting it when they were just 10 & 11 years old. (Its fun)
Loaded with Winchester PDX rounds should serve well for HD - nine bb's and three disc in each shell:

I've shot that into water filled gallon jugs and some of the load penetrated as far as expanded HST 9mm- back of 3rd jug

 

[Saleen322]

Since you

...I realize up front and acknowledge that 22 LR is a less than ideal choice for defense. You don't have to try and convince me...

IMHO if one has decided on using a 22 LR, the big concern is the penetration. Sectional density (SD) of a 40 grain 22 LR is .115, definitely on the low end. Most of the hyper velocity rounds are lighter meaning they are worse for penetration. A 42 grain bullet increases the SD to .121 and a 45 grain to .129; I think Winchester at least at one time made a 45. No hollow point etc, you need all of the mass to stay together as much as possible. For comparison, a 9mm 115 grain is around SD of .130 so at similar velocities with the same hardness of projectile you could expect similar penetration--just a smaller hole. YMMV

 

[herkyguy]

I've thought of that, too. But then I think about a 4" to 6" barreled revolver in .22 WMR. Low recoil, but a bit more umph and penetration with the available jacketed bullets.

I say this because when I get to the point I can't handle recoil, I'm probably going to move to a .22 WMR gun of some sort with enough barrel to take advantage of the cartridge. Either that or I'll just put low recoil 148 grain wadcutters of .38 Special into a revolver I already have.

Whole lotta flash from a .22 WMR pistol...... I shoot a lot and find it both distracting and entertaining to shoot my Super Single Six.

 

[BigBL87]

As others have said, 22lr is by no means an ideal, or even a "good" option for home defense. That being said, any gun is better than no gun at all in my opinion.

My wife had a moment recently that made her rethink her avoidance of learning how to shoot. Long story short, cat was chasing a mouse and made ALOT of noise, making her think someone was in the house. She said she might want to try shooting again (got her to shoot the PT111 G2 I sold to my FIL last year, she did ok but just doesn't like shooting and handling firearms). When we talked about what all she could try, she liked the idea of the M&P 22 Compact. If that's what she is confident with and she'll actually shoot it, I'll take that over a baseball bat, sharp stick, etc..

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Whole lotta flash from a .22 WMR pistol...... I shoot a lot and find it both distracting and entertaining to shoot my Super Single Six.

That's even MORE true if you don't buy .22 WMR ammo that is designed for shorter barrel guns (i.e., handguns). Most of the .22 WMR available is for rifles -- and those rounds just don't perform as well in a much shorter barrel. Hornaday and others make ammo for shorter barrels, and some of them perform more like .380 ammo than .22 ammo -- same or better penetration. You've got to be choosy when you buy .22 WMR if you think you'll use it for home or self defense.

(My wife WILL shoot our Kel-Tec PMR-30, and shoots it reasonably well. Everything else leaves her cold. (If I have to be out of town for an extended period, she'll want it in the bedroom gunsafe in case things go bump in the night.)

 

[Fishslayer]

Rimfire ammo can be prone to misfires & misfeeds, even in a quality pistol.

Bulk ammo, yes, but in terms of the round going bang I would be pretty comfortable trusting my life to Mini Mag or Eley primed ammo. I don't recall one ever failing to fire.

Wouldn't be my first choice of caliber but better than throwing rocks. I'm always reminded of that gal in GA that put 9 rounds into an attacker. He made it to the yard before he died but the .22 definitely took his mind off of his original intent.

 

[chicharrones]

Whole lotta flash from a .22 WMR pistol...... I shoot a lot and find it both distracting and entertaining to shoot my Super Single Six.

A whole lot of .22 WMR flash does come out of the cylinder gap in a revolver. My Single Six is no different. A lot of .22 WMR flash comes out of a KelTec PMR30 as well.

The flash doesn't seem much different than firing .38 Special +P out of a snub nose revolver or .357 Magnum out of a 4" revolver. Except the .22 WMR sure shoots more softly.

 

[John_R]

Many claim that any handgun sucks compared to a centerfire rifle. It's all relative, and all theoretical until the real world happens.

 

[Confederate]

Some people judge the .22LR from the size of the hole and the lack of penetration. That's a mistake. It's like judging a shotgun by the performance of the pellet. The .22 should be judged by the [number of holes] + [the inherent accuracy of the round] + [the speed at which they're made] + [the paths they take in the body] + [their velovity]. But what of the lack of reliability of the round itself? We've all seen the "duds" box at the range, but if one is going to use any ammo for defense, they should use premium hi-velocity ammo. (You don't see those in the duds box!)

The .22LR excels in all the above. Go to the range and buy one of this silhouette targets. Take your .22LR auto and, without using your sights, shoot at the head at about ten feet. Now try it using your .38 Spc or other centerfire. If you do well, you will excel at both; however, if you don't show any points with either, you need work. The point is, a .22 will be capable of putting a lot of lead in an adversary using a good gun such as the Ruger Mark II. ELEVEN SHOTS in about 5 seconds! That's got to hurt! And nearly anyone can get outstanding results with minimal practice.

So yes, a .22LR makes an excellent defense gun, especially home defense. Where I WOULDN'T use it? Boat defense if you're out on the water. There a Ruger Mini-14 5.56 would be a good choice. On the road? Out West? Go with a .357. Same in the woods. You should instinctively know when a .22LR pistol is appropriate. Unless you live in East Los Angeles, a .22 should be good to go!


Ruger .22LR

..

 

[herkyguy]

A whole lot of .22 WMR flash does come out of the cylinder gap in a revolver. My Single Six is no different. A lot of .22 WMR flash comes out of a KelTec PMR30 as well.

The flash doesn't seem much different than firing .38 Special +P out of a snub nose revolver or .357 Magnum out of a 4" revolver. Except the .22 WMR sure shoots more softly.

Kinda got me wondering if there's a .22 WMR load with a fast-burning powder optimized for pistols rather than rifles??

 

[chicharrones]

Kinda got me wondering if there's a .22 WMR load with a fast-burning powder optimized for pistols rather than rifles??

I think someone in this thread may have mentioned Hornady Critical Defense. I believe it was developed specifically for handguns. I've tried it
in a rifle for the heck of it as well as in handguns.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

As I underststand it, the .22 WMR ammo that is designed for shorter barrels has faster-burning powder ("faster-burning" is not the proper term, I know, as it's really a chemical reaction) that lets the powder release more of its energy BEFORE the bullet leaves the barrel. Ammo designed for longer barrels (as is the case with most .22 WMR ammo) is slower-burning, and tends to generate more of the energy release LATER (while the bullet is still in the barrel).

The Hornady Critical Defense ammo is one of those loads designed for the shorter barrels, but the very short barrels are still too short. For some of the sub-3" and sub-4" barrels, any .22 WMR ammo is as much noise/flash maker as a bullet-propelling mechanism. Even in the longer-barrel of the Kel-Tec PMR-30, you still get a LARGE fireball (looks like a ring and a LOT of noise! That is at least a sign of SOME wasted energy.

 

[Kleanbore]

Some people judge the .22LR from the size of the hole and the lack of penetration. That's a mistake. It's like judging a shotgun by the performance of the pellet. The .22 should be judged by the [number of holes] + [the inherent accuracy of the round] + [the speed at which they're made] + [the paths they take in the body] + [their velovity].

Any defensive firearm should be judged first on the basis of penetration, and then on the number of hits that can be made timely.

The size of the hole is also important, but within the category of service arms (say, .38 to .45), it is of secondary importance.

Inherent accuracy really won't matter at all in defensive shooting...combat accuracy is what is important.

The capability of a firearm to effect a stop other than a psychological one will depend in a large extent on what is destroyed inside the body. The first prerequisite is penetration.

Precision accuracy won't matter. The defender cannot see the critical internal body parts, and if he or she could, he would not have time to try to target them. Hitting them is a stochastic matter.

Velocity only matters insofar as it affects penetration and expansion.

One other thing, Confederate: your "don't talk to the police" links provide good advice for incidents other than defensive shootings. But not for persons who will end up truing to mount a defense of justification. refer to the stickies in the ST&T forum for more on that.