Old Dog
Member
What "uninformed assumptions" have you seen posted in this thread (other than "it's all hypothetical so there's really nothing to worry about")?
Flash Mob, How Do You React?
- Thread starter The Night Rider
- Start date
1. Know where the exits are. Any exits count, but figure that the mob will come in through authorized exits and will likely leave the way they came in.
2. Don't be afraid to be afraid. If things don't feel right, don't hang around to see how bad they will get. People are pretty good at intuiting danger if they learn to pay attention, but sometimes the warning comes in the form of a "bad feeling". When you get one, get away. It's going to cause you an inconvenience at best if you leave when you didn't really need to. Who really cares about an inconvenience?
3. The comment about bathrooms was a good one. Not much to steal in there.
2. Don't be afraid to be afraid. If things don't feel right, don't hang around to see how bad they will get. People are pretty good at intuiting danger if they learn to pay attention, but sometimes the warning comes in the form of a "bad feeling". When you get one, get away. It's going to cause you an inconvenience at best if you leave when you didn't really need to. Who really cares about an inconvenience?
3. The comment about bathrooms was a good one. Not much to steal in there.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
These have been a thing since before 2003, but the term coined at that time. And at that time, flash mobs were largely performances of artistic expression using social media to get folks together (open invites, no RSVP needed) and people just showed up and would start to perform. A post on social media might go out saying "Flash Mob at Spring Town Mall 6:00 pm tonight to meet and then do "We Are The Champions" at 7:00 pm. Wear as much green as possible. Singers and musicians needed" Later, the nefarious class realized that you could flash mob robberies which apparently started around 2011.
Bill_in_TR
Member
Let's be clear that these groups are acting as part of an organized criminal theft effort with the intent of taking advantage of the direction from corporate for the local managers and employees to take no action that puts anyone at risk by using shock and large numbers. These are not Katrina mobs steeling for themselves as part of an unorganized riot. They're acting to supply a third party.
The only violence against others takes place when someone tries to stop the thieves and they run over them leaving the store. This isn't the riot/mobs we've all seen during social strife. This is a purely "business" proposition using theft and the goods going to fences or buyers. It is a different paradigm.
theotherwaldo
Member
I'm leery of ducking into bathrooms.
They have no back doors.
There may be nothing to steal there, but the mob may decide that there's someone there to rob or assault.
No, I'm more likely heading for the kitchens, offices or loading docks... .
They have no back doors.
There may be nothing to steal there, but the mob may decide that there's someone there to rob or assault.
No, I'm more likely heading for the kitchens, offices or loading docks... .
It's not a great option--I would never use it if getting out/away was an available option. But the grocery store I frequent has two bathroom at the front extreme corners of the store. All the exits are at the very back or the center front. If I were at the front of the store and didn't feel like I could go out the main exits at the front or get to the back, I'd rather go in the bathroom than stand out in the open.
If it's a Kenya Mall/terrorism type situation where they are taking over and planning to stay, the bathrooms are only going to work for a very short while. If it's a flash mob type situation, they're likely there to grab stuff and get out reasonably quickly. If you can stay out of the way for a few minutes, the bathroom could work if you don't have a better option. And, if it comes down to it, you will have a better chance of defending yourself if you only have to worry about one door instead of people coming at you from all directions. Just hope everyone else runs away from the gunshots and not towards.
If it's a Kenya Mall/terrorism type situation where they are taking over and planning to stay, the bathrooms are only going to work for a very short while. If it's a flash mob type situation, they're likely there to grab stuff and get out reasonably quickly. If you can stay out of the way for a few minutes, the bathroom could work if you don't have a better option. And, if it comes down to it, you will have a better chance of defending yourself if you only have to worry about one door instead of people coming at you from all directions. Just hope everyone else runs away from the gunshots and not towards.
.308 Norma
Member
Yeah, and due to my 75-year-old prostate, I make a point of learning where the restrooms are in all of the stores we normally shop at.
BTW, of all the stores we normally shop at around here, Sportsman's Warehouse has the cleanest restrooms.
old lady new shooter
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Thankfully the Walmart by me isn't frequented by criminals. Not to say such couldn't show up, but generally it's just normal middle-class people, i.e. also nobody in pajamas or other weird garb as frequently seen on internet videos. I did see a woman open-carrying there a couple weeks ago. She made a very businesslike impression and nobody paid the slightest attention to her. I had the impression she was probably an off-duty cop or other LE type.
old lady new shooter
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I'm an old lady myself. But I definitely hear you. If I saw a child being beaten up I don't know if I could let it pass.
I totally get what you are saying, along with the additional thoughtful comments by other THR'ers suggesting refuge at loading docks, kitchens, and offices. I also concur that reflexively racing outdoors might inadvertently put one into the even GREATER chaos of the parking lot where crazed drivers are making their getaways at high speed.
The aisle with pet food, bathroom towels, sheets, cleaning supplies, and similar items will likely remain untouched.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
This reminds me of what people say are surprised X crime happened because they live in a safe neighborhood.
I am not sure you can say the Walmart isn't frequented. All you would know is that it isn't marked by obvious criminal activity. I doubt there is a Walmart in the US that isn't plagued by shoplifting issues. Keep in mind that Walmart loses over 3 billion a year to theft. Granted, that is a good sign that nothing is obvious, but doesn't tell the whole story.
old lady new shooter
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I wasn't referring to run-of-the-mill shoplifting which I suppose takes place almost anywhere. But I've never seen anyone in there who is dressed like a gang member, is visibly high, or even anyone behaving rudely to employees or other shoppers.
small town life
Member
I can't stand thieves! All they do is make cost go up! The only time I care nothing about them is if they steal something from my POS neighbors! They're thieves themselves! I would beat the living 
out of them!
out of them!
OP
OP
The Night Rider
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I wouldn't bet on it.
Old Dog
Member
All I know is that many of the suspected criminal element that I notice in my local Wal-Marts, Walgreens, Safeway and other stores is that most of them are thoughtful enough to provide obvious "Parental Advisory Warning" labels on their faces and necks in the form of bad tattoos, particularly jail-house and prison tats. Jail-house and prison ink is easily recognizable as it's typically in one color (black), and often looks pretty primitively drawn (like by a grade-schooler) although there are a number of talented tattooists in prisons capable of some surprisingly detailed and otherwise professional-appearing art (mostly among the Hispanics and white supremacist gangs).
Anyone with teardrops inked under the corners of their eyes, "5150" or "187," "MS-13," "The M," "Norte,' "Sureno," etc. tattooed on the back of their neck or forehead, bald guys with ram's horns inked on both sides of their heads, the 5-point crown on chests or shoulders, three dots at the side of an eye, a clock with no hands, five dots on the hand, "AB" or swastikas (also the two SS lightning bolts on the neck) -- if you know how to recognize gang tats/prison ink, you can read someone's history, and maybe their proclivities for illegal activities read quick. Kinda like reading a military person's rack of ribbons, campaign, service awards and badges...
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You just haven’t been there at the right time.
They all have shoplifting issues. But if you're in a store where they have no self checkouts? And all the cosmetics and the entire hardware department under lock and key? It's probably more prone to crime than other Walmarts.
Not saying you shouldn't be ready for crime in a nice Walmart. But I avoid the crappy Walmarts like the plague.
herrwalther
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Best case is to always break contact and leave when violence starts. Bathroom is an alternative location because you can lock yourself in a stall. That would give a would be attacker a choke point to deal with. And if you have a firearm, your chances of turning away an attacker in an enclosed space rise dramatically. Bathroom would also be one of the safest places if the flash mob decides to set fire to the store. I would rather take my chances in a bathroom than any open aisle in the store regardless of its "street value" to thieves.
There is no such thing as safe neighborhoods. Crime happens everywhere there are people. I live on a dead end dirt road with less neighbors than I have fingers. But I wouldn't call it safe.
P5 Guy
Member
Good neighborhoods can have bad people.
The family a couple blocks from me the two boys have been incarcerated for auto theft. 14 and 16 and impressive records for drugs, B&E, robbery the one carjack.
Questionable parents with good jobs can move to high-end neighborhoods with uncontrollable kids.
The family a couple blocks from me the two boys have been incarcerated for auto theft. 14 and 16 and impressive records for drugs, B&E, robbery the one carjack.
Questionable parents with good jobs can move to high-end neighborhoods with uncontrollable kids.
I am going to vote for zero situational awareness.
Criminals come in every shade, shape and attire.
ETA: I would just stay clear... Their property is not my responsibility.
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Whether or not one thinks that there are shady shoppers in a store, and the fact that bad people can cpme from mile around, are relevant to strategies and tactics regarding personal safety in and around the stores. However, those things are not directly relevant to the subject in the OP.
The question was about flash mobs--about lawlessness coordinated via social media. The drivers of such activities will surely involve other things.
The question was about flash mobs--about lawlessness coordinated via social media. The drivers of such activities will surely involve other things.
lightman
Member
My first thoughts were to try to escape and go unnoticed. Next option would be to find a place in the store that I could go that was defensible and again be unnoticeable. I would not engage a mob unless I had to. Its not my store!
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