Flat primers

[Dirtdgger]

Will to long of col cause flat primers? I loaded up some 45acp here's my load. Powder win 231 5.1 gr
Primer cci large pistol
Cases win
oal 1.30
Berrys 230gr rn

Checked loads in barrel looked fine loaded ten rounds shot three looked at primers all were flat one had hole about the size of firing pin. What did I do wrong?

 

[joneb]

Will to long of col cause flat primers?

No but to short can. How did you determine a COL of 1.30" ?

 

[ljnowell]

How are you weighing your charges?

 

[Dirtdgger]

I went to berrys web site they said to load off of fmj load data . Looked in hornadys load data said col 1.30. I measured powder on rcbs 505 scale.

 

[joneb]

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf

On page 49, the SAAMI max COL for 45 acp is 1.275" I doubt 1.3" would fit my mags ?

 

[1SOW]

If your load is over the SAAMI max oal, it can contact the rifling/cone and cause serious pressure 'spikes'.

 

[joneb]

If your load is over the SAAMI max oal, it can contact the rifling/cone and cause serious pressure 'spikes'.
Today 09:13 PM

No but to short can.

Thanks 1SOW, I was wrong

 

[rcmodel]

I went to berrys web site they said to load off of fmj load data

What it actually says is:

"When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual."

Hodgdon says W231 with a 230 Jacketed bullet:
Start load = 4.2.
Max laod = 5.3.

Your 5.1 load is near max.
And I'm not at all clear on what your seating depth was.

rc

 

[Steve C]

There's absolutely no problem with your load if assembled as stated other than you OAL is a bit long by .025". Hodgdon's data lists 5.3grs as max for both Lead and Jacketed. That is a rather mild load at only 16,900 CUP. The old CUP standard for the .45 ACP is 19,900 CUP, current max in PSI is 21,000 PSI.

Comparative data shows Speer with 5.6grs max for their 230gr LRN (5.1grs is start). With a jacketed 230gr RN the max is 6.2grs.

Sierra 5.7gr with 230gr FMJ. The older Winchester data ran 5.1 max for 230gr Lead and and 5.7gr for Jacketed.

Its unlikely you are seeing high pressure signs in your load unless there was an accidental overcharge in which case you should have experienced violent recoil yet you don't mention any excessive recoil. Low pressure can cause flattened primers as well as high pressure.

There is a chance that your bullet is engaging the rifling of the barrel and in a rifle this will cause high pressure. Remove your barrel and drop in one of your 1.3 OAL reloads int he chamber and compare to a factory round to see if it sits in the chamber the same way.

 

[Dirtdgger]

You guys are right on the money again. I went out to loading room today after a day with grand child on field trip. So this is what I did pulled bullets on rest of loads to check powder charge. This is where the problems start. I have been hand loading for right at 20 yrs. First time at 45acp but that is no excuse for what happened. I have three scales rcbs 505 & 10 10 and a Lyman. I check and recheck my loads. This time my brain was in left field I loaded these bullets with 6.1grs!!! Ouch! I'm not that old 56 but I pulled a boner
Just goes to shows you we all can make mistakes. Thanks for the help all of you.

 

[Walkalong]

I have shot plenty of Berrys 230 Gr RN with up to 80% or so of jacketed data with no problems and no excessive velocities that would indicate too much pressure.

Load them at 1.260 to 1.265 with 5.0 Grs of W-231. These will be accurate, pleasant to shoot, and will be just fine pressure wise.

Sometimes primers will look really flat on even mild loads.

 

[Walkalong]

Typing at the same time again. Yep, 6.1 will be stout. Same advise though.

 

[Dirtdgger]

Thanks walkalong! I'll try that and see how it works.

 

[Walkalong]

You can work up .1 at a time from there. You should be able to go to 5.5 with no problems. Some older W-231 data goes past 6.1, but at 6.1 it gets very snappy.

Check out this thread. It has some good info, as well as links to plated data and two pics of the Midway Load Map with 230 Gr RN plated data.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=434945

 

[MachIVshooter]

What primers are you using? I ask, because I looked through my book and found several win 231/230 gr. bullet loads (plated, LRN and FMJ) at 6.5 grains and didn't note any problems; velocities were 900 FPS +/-20 FPS depending on bullet and gun. OAL's were 1.260"-1.270"

I also have one that I logged using 230 gr. Gold Dots over 6.3 grains, 1.240" COAL. Only gave 870 FPS from a S&W 4506 (5"). Not exactly a hot load.

My +P loads are done with Unique.

 

[Dirtdgger]

I was using cci#300 large pistol primers.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I was using cci#300 large pistol primers.

Huh. CCI's have pretty hard cups, they're my preffered primer. I use 350's in all LPP applications. I'm gonna have to go with the "too long and contacting the rifling" theory. Unless you somehow got some oversized bullets; Maybe mic them?

One other possibility: I've sometimes had plated bullets get a "muffin top" trying to seat and crimp in the same step, and that could cause higher pressures in theory by increasing diameter (though it's pretty thin copper, should just squish down)

 

[Dirtdgger]

I'll mic those bullets I pulled them got them on the bench. I'll check and see if they got squished. Loaded up ten more with walkalongs load rained all day couldnt shoot today. Did get my Tmag mounted today.

Thanks for the imput!

 

[918v]

Primer flattening is normal. How much flattening are we talking about here? Could you post a pic?