Floating .22s, are any good?

[bgeddes]

I kayak quite a bit. On my list of gear is stuff to survive should things go terribly wrong in a remote place. Along with knowledge, I keep the basics of fire, food, water, shelter on board when paddling in area where help is out of cell range. At present, a .22lr pistol is part of the mix. I would much prefer a floating rifle. Most are poorly reviewed. They don't feed well, or are poorly manufactured, etc. Is there a quality .22 rifle, hopefully less dense than water, that would serve me better than my handgun?

 

[MCgunner]

Most will tell ya to stay clear of the AR7. I'm assuming you're talking about the AR7. It floats because the stock is filled with floatation foam. It comes apart and stows in the stock, so it don't even look much like a gun when you pack it away. I have owned two. First one got ripped off and I bought another from a friend for cheap. Both of 'em work, go bang every time. It's only about 1" at 25 yards accurate even with a scope and the trigger sux, but it's a neat little take along on a water adventure for sure. I bought my original one because it fit so easily in motor cycle saddle bags. I don't really shoot it much, but it's very compact to take along and it only weighs about 2.5 lbs which is important on a Kayak as most have a limited weight rating.

Now, two tips, if it's not feeding reliably, 99 percent of the time it's the feed ramp which is integral with the magazine. Bending it in or out will fix the problem. Also, there are tutorials on the web, google it, but some have claimed that giving the chamber mouth a slight chamfer helps reliability if you're running into stoppages. I've never done that, not had the problems that adjusting the feed ramp on the magazine didn't cure.

Lots of folks are total idiots, though, and if it don't feed out of the box, they call it crap and move on. Whatever, but the gun is quite reliable when it's working, feeds just fine, at least my two have. If it don't feed, it's easy to adjust and fix. It's a very simple design. They're a very niche specific type of gun and it sounds like you are the niche they're specific to. Not the gun I grab to go hunting with unless that involves getting there on the motorcycle and, now days, I usually hunt small game with my handguns. 20 years ago, I used the AR7 a lot. It's killed quite a few squirrel and one raccoon I can remember from about 50 yards.

 

[22-rimfire]

I would wrap something like a Ruger 10/22 in plastic (bag if possible) with some kind of floatation. Shouldn't take too much but I don't think you would want to dump it in the middle of some serious white water as it is probably "gone". This is not intended as something that you keep at ready for self defense; rather a survival piece.

There are other break down rifles, but none float like the AR-7. So, get yourself a short stock (fold out perhaps) and 16" barrel Ruger and it will probably be about as good as it gets.

 

[MCgunner]

Have you ever been on a kayak? I have a 10/22 also. Trust me, the AR7 is about the ONLY rifle that is kayak friendly. It's cheap enough to own as a niche gun. Buy yourself a 10/22 for normal usage. Hell, I have 5 rimfire rifles.

One alternative, I guess it's still available, is the Marlin Papoose. It doesn't float, but the case it comes with does. It's also a take down and built for the canoe trip niche.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

The papoose is light years ahead of the ar7 or it's clones. It even has a real steel barrel.

 

[bgeddes]

I have handled the AR-7ish rifles. They seem ok, but TONS of 'they don't shoot' on the web. I will do everything and anything before giving up so maybe that is the path I should look into first.

A 10/22 is a great gun. Like MC says, not so kayak friendly.

I'll have to dig into the Papoose. It may work also, depending.

Truthfully I have heard of both the aforementioned firearms, just wondering if there is a gem out there with which I am unfamiliar.

 

[Joe Demko]

An NEF single shot breaks down easily, is light, can be stowed in a floating case, and is about a million times the rifle that an AR7 is.

 

[22-rimfire]

Have you ever been on a kayak? I have a 10/22 also.

Yep. Own one. Own a 10/22, but no AR-7 since I don't regard them favorably. But to your point, yes, the rifle will get wet unless you are very careful and there is not much room. A handgun is probably a better choice.

The NEF or the new TC single shot rifle may be a good choice. Didn't think about them. Frankly a Contender would work pretty well as you could more easily put it in a water proof bag or case and it should be just as accurate as the AR-7 from a rest.

 

[Charles S]

I have always wanted a rifle like you describe, but have never taken the time to purchase it. For survival it really does make a lot of sense.

I have shot the AR-7 and was not terribly impressed with it's accuracy. However it did function well for me.

I like the idea of a scoped Contender for a survival rifle.

Of course I have always been fascinated with the M6 Scout rifle. It used to come with a floating case.

For my purposes I use a stainless pistol.

 

[22-rimfire]

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/youth_models.php

Here is a link to the new HotShot by TC. Weighs 3 lbs. Kid sized, but shouldn't be a big problem for survival purposes. I need to look at one of these as the youth sized Remington Model 5 and CZ 452 always appealed to me.

 

[mnrivrat]

The now Henry built AR7 should work just fine if you want a floater. No, they are not a top quality piece, but they are functional and something that isn't going to be critical if it jamms a time a two. Its main attraction however is the floating feature - if you don't need a .22 that floats, there are better choices in my opinion.

 

[Mountie855]

I can vouch for the Papoose- stainless, light, short...very accurate and reliable.

Another option is the Henry Mini-Bolt- stainless/synthetic, simple, short, 3.25lbs, single shot, inexpensive, and in my experience reliable and accurate.

IIRC, both are around 33-34 inches long.

 

[jmorris]

I agree with MCgunner, my henry copy of the ar7 runs 100% and is more accurate than I thought it would be. Not for everyone or every application but would work fine in your application, at half the weight of anything else.

 

[MCgunner]

The neatest thing about a AR7 in nautical use is that it floats assembled as well as stowed. It's NOT steel so it won't rust. Well, the bolt is steel and the liner of the barrel is steel, of course. It's a rugged little gun, just not very refined as a shooter. It's plenty capable of small game accuracy, 2" at 50 yards with federal bulk ammo. Yeah, my 10" contender will outshoot it, but I sure as HELL ain't risking my Contender on a friggin' kayak!!!!! I ain't riskin' my MkII on a kayak, either. Both pistols have scopes mounted, too. The AR7 was just MADE for this application IMHO. A stainless Papoose is a good alternative, but it will not float without its case. If you are going to carry it stowed except when you're off the yak, it'd work great and it's higher quality and should shoot a little better. I really think the Papoose is the only real alternative to the AR7 for this application. All else is either too big or don't float, so would hurt me too much to lose.

 

[rangerruck]

there are a few to look at; first is majestic arms ar-7 type, that they did up. if their rifle comes with a floating bag, that would be my first choice. If not that, then a marlin 795 or marlin papoose. I think the papoose came with a floating bag. either way, you these are both very light. I would then open up the stock, and put your favorite floaty stuff in there...

 

[Oregun89]

The Marlin Papoose is probably as "top quality" as you're gonna get.

What pistol do you currently carry? If something accurate like a Ruger Mark III or 22/45 I would just keep using that.

Don't but a rifle that you'll hardly use, but a dry float bag instead. Like this Stowfloat

 

[jmorris]

I really think the Papoose is the only real alternative to the AR7 for this application. All else is either too big or don't float

The bag is the only thing that floats the Papoose, just put any break down or SBR .22 in there.

The Marlin Papoose is probably as "top quality" as you're gonna get.

Never have shot the Browning 22 have you?

 

[thunder173]

+1 jmorris...I have a Charter AR-7,...it works fine for this type of purpose,..and in fact,..is exactley why I bought it years ago. I also have other takedowns. Any will work equally well or better if packed in a floatable case. I particularly like a .22 over .410 for this type of stuff.

 

[Kingcreek]

I had a charter arms years ago. the only thing it did reliably was float. and if it wasn't for that, I would have thrown it off a bridge in a fit of frustration over its total failure at everything else.

 

[benzy2]

I would find a thin barreled rifle of your choice with a synthetic stock and fill the butt and forend with foam. Sand the forend to float the barrel and call it a day. Go stainless if you worry about rust. I would look at something like a Marlin 980s or Savage Mk II F. Inexpensive, proven shooters. I would rather try to turn a good rifle into a floating rifle as well than turn a floating rifle into a good rifle. I would think you could find some form of floats that could be attached to the rifle for water travel to make it float if foam didn't do the job. I would think though that a bit of spray foam would keep even a heavy barreled rifle at the top of the water.

 

[conhntr]

+1 but I would go for a handi rifle h&r they are accurate; mine rivals my heavy barrleled savage, and they take down really easilly. I believe the standard forens screw is Phillips heAd but you could replace it with a slotted the head is big enough a coin could turn it.

They also are a bit lighter than the bolt guns and cheaper

 

[Mountie855]

Handi Rifles are handier if the takedown screw is replaced with a thumb screw...several mfrs offer thumbscrews in various configurations including stainless.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I'm a canoeing fan and have carried my AR7 Henry made many times - never went into the water though. but the once I took one of my 10/22 derned if my Spaniel didn't jump off the gunnel on one side while I was leaning over the other gunnel and FLIP into the drink I went. I managed to get the canoe (16' Grumman freighter) righted and a daypack I had retreived - it had a foam back pad and didn't sink and I had waterproof match case inside. got a fire going, the canoe dumped out and and went diveing for the Ruger. nothing like about a half-hour in a cold mountain river on a November afternoon but I got the Ruger. found some relatively clear water and rinsed the mud off and out and shook it dry - it fired.
I've never had any trouble with my Henry except an occasional feed bobble they are ammo-sensitive and mine likes the higher priced stuff. takes some getting used to for a good sight picture but mine is plenty accurate. I have all confidence in mine.

 

[GooseGestapo]

An aquaintance and I went through the same discussion several years ago.

He's a retired Airforce fighter jock, and flys a Lear 40, and needed something for the survival kit on the aircraft (includes a raft, lifejackets ect.).

He had an AR-7 but it gave him "fits" with feeding and the accuracy of his was non-existant (5"+ @ 50', yes fifty FEET!). I steered him to the Marlin Papoose. 1" at 50yds and very reliable. He also bought another for his personal use as he is active with a boy scouts troop and Civil Air Patrol unit. He also bought a floating bag in distress orange and painted the stock on his to match rest of survival equipment.

I personally use an S&W mod 617 and have fabricated a lanyard to attach to a screw-eye that attaches the Hogue grip to the firearm (replaced the screw with the stainless screw-eye). If not the 617, then my mod 337ti 3" .38spl "Kit Gun" w/adjustable sights also with a lanyard attachment ring. I'd put either of the pistols up against the AR-7 for accuracy at 50'............... But, they don't float;---- but the life jacket they're attached to will.........

FWIW; I was a boating/conservation officer for 22yrs+, so I'm familiar with firearms in the marine environment. Before we went to the Glock 22, I had a lanyard attachment for my M686 that looped over the frame and grip roll pin and out the open bottom of the Pachmyer grips (made from stainless sheet metal from a marine engine hose clamp- similar to the clamp that Hogue uses) and would attach it to my LifeJacket when working at night or in inclement weather. It's hard to explain losing your firearm while dragging for a drowning victim in a pouring rain. No, I didn't lose one, but a co-worker lost his, and had to pay for it !! (state issue). I resolved not to lose mine after finding it laying on the bottom of the boat one night..... The Glock has a nice little hole where a swivel snap on a lanyard hooks nicely preventing an awkward situation with the superviser.........

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

The original Costa Mesa produced ARMALITE AR7 is a much better functioning gun than the later made copies. Find an original if you go that way. I have owned four, and all worked fine. A nephew and son-in-law have two of them, and I still have a third. I'd buy another Armalite anyday.