Florida again, At least this little girl was not Tazed.

[Vernal45]

Video shows police handcuffing 5-year-old
Lawyer releases tape of incident involving unruly Fla. girl
The Associated Press
Updated: 9:21 p.m. ET April 23, 2005

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - A 5-year-old girl was handcuffed by police after she tore papers off a bulletin board and punched an assistant principal in kindergarten class, according to a video released by a lawyer for the child’s mother.

The 30-minute tape shows the child appearing to calm down before three officers pinned her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs as she screamed, “No!â€

The camera was rolling March 14 as part of a classroom self-improvement exercise at Fairmount Park Elementary, attorney John Trevena said.

Trevena, who provided the tape to the media this week, said he got it from police.

“The image itself will be seared into people’s minds when you have three police officers bending a child over a table and forcibly handcuffing her,†said Trevena, who represents the girl’s mother, Inga Akins.

Police spokesman Bill Proffitt said an investigation into the matter would be complete in about two weeks and the findings would be made public.
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

© 2005 MSNBC.com

 

[Talon]

I can ALMOST understand why the cops felt the need to act in the manner they did. With the kid going nuts and punching people, the need to restrain her MAY have been needed. I obviously wasn't there, so there's no way to know.

Now, with the need to restrain the child, and then take into consideration all the lawsuits that have come about because of stupid parents and whatnot saying their child had been mistreated, the officers probably felt the only way to resolve the situation was to follow proper police procedures for adults. There probably isn't a manual on how to take a 5 year old into custody.

So now you see several problems have presented themselves. First is the fact that, because it's public education, the teachers are powerless to do anything with an unruly child for fear of lawsuits, so they resort to calling in police. Second of course is the question of where the parents were. I don't want to pre-judge, but I'd be willing to bet the parents either didn't care or were "too busy" to come and deal with their child.

Let me lay out how this SHOULD have gone down. If it had been a privatized school to begin with, the school could have their own policies for discipline, rather than bow to the state standards and laws that prohibit teachers from doing anything but observe.

With their own policies for discipline, the teacher should have taken various steps to correct the child's behavior, leading up to corporal punishment and/or expulsion.

If the parents didn't like that approach to discipline, they would have been aware of that from the time they chose the school, and could find somewhere that more adequately suited their desires for their child's education.

The police should have never been called. It should have been dealt with right then and there by the authorities of the school. But they can't, because of the stupid laws that state legislatures have passed thinking it was the right thing to do, when in reality they had no business getting involved at all. The teachers are scared to do anything for fear of getting sued or fired by the school boards which are more about politics than educating children. So you see, this ALL goes back to the government's involvement where it doesn't belong.

 

[thumbody]

When the officers first got there one was heard saying something like "remember me" . Apparently the police had been called a week or so earlier for the same child. It is possible she struck out at them befor and they were just taking preventative measures this time. At the least she should not be allowed back in this school.She has no respect for authority figures,and disrupts the whole learning environment for other children.

 

[LawDog]

In Texas, I can't touch a child that young. I seriously doubt if Florida is any different.

I've got two huge problems with this incident:

1) Who the hell decided that a five-year-old temper-tantrum was a valid reason to call the police?

2) Why the hell didn't the first officer on the scene say, "Are you fecking serious? Is the child an immediate danger to herself? Is the child an immediate danger to someone else? NO? We're busy, call us if you have a criminal problem." and then leave.

Folks, a temper-tantrum by a five-year-old child is not a law enforcement problem, unless you can prove immediate danger to someone.

The only immediate danger I saw in that video, was a need for an immediate blistering of her butt.

Jumping Judas Priest, people, around here you can't charge a five-year-old with a crime. I seriously doubt if it's any different in Florida.

Whoever called the cops screwed up, and the cops pooched the whole sitiuation to a Biblical level.

LawDog

 

[Seraph]

I'm right there with LawDog on this. Who calls the police on a 5yr old kid? Will the principal sue for compensation? Incredible. Pathetic.

 

[Vernal45]

I agree with LAWDOG, the cops should not have called. When they cops handcuffed here, they just changed postions on screwing the pooch.

 

[El Rojo]

So what do you do as a public school administrator that has an unruley child that is striking people and the parent is unavailable to come pick them up? Again, take into consideration this is a public school and modern times. I am not asking about what they "should" be able to do, but what they can legitimately do.

Now the cops have been called. What should we expect from the officers? You have a school administrator telling you a 5 year old is unrulely and striking others. The mother is not available to come pick her up. The school administrator wants her removed from the scene. What is law enforcements responsibility? Do they have to remove her because she is a threat to others? Can they just walk away? If you do have to take her, how do you do it? She is resisting you and striking at you. What do you do? You tell her to sit tight and you call CPS, but she is being unrulely while you wait for them to show? What does CPS do when she doesn't want to go with them?

Me personally, getting handcuffed isn't that big of a deal. It isn't permanent and it won't be the end of your life. If it scared the young lady, then good, let her know now this is what she has to look forward to if she doesn't shape up. And the mother should take responsibility too. Of course she doesn't and she turns this back around on the cops and school. What a joke.

 

[beerslurpy]

A 5 year old angry grizzly bear in school is a reason to call teh cops.

A 5 year old angry girl in school is NOT.

Around here (in an apparently more sane section of florida), they would just call the parents to come pick up their disruptive child. The cops are usually too busy doing important things like harassing black people and motorists.

 

[El Rojo]

Beerslurpy, they did call her mother and the mother couldn't be reached or was not available to come pick her up.

 

[fastbolt]

Okay, I can't get started on what I really think about things like this, or I'll be here all day ...

Let's just say that I think Lawdog covered the essentials well enough ... although El Rojo has some valid points.

Sometime soon our enlightened, 'progressive', liberal-inclined society is going to have wake up and take a serious look at what they've created in the public school system.

If you remove the school's ability to properly control unruly children ... (gasp, yes, even including the judicious use of lawful, corporal punishment) ... and you don't require at least some reasonable token effort on the part of the family to instill respect for others and proper behavior in children ... then there's going to be problems.

Unfortunately, the role of L/E is seemingly being constantly expanded to try and provide a net for everything that's falling through the gaping holes in our diverse and wonderful society.

 

[Gray Peterson]

I unfortunately have some experience with the public school systems in Pinellas County, where this occured. They are some of the most incompetent idiots I've ever seen. Same with the police there.

 

[Alex45ACP]

A simple smack upside the head would have put an end to this problem immediately. Unfortunately it's not an option for public school teachers today.

 

[Kamicosmos]

Yes, I too am perplexed as to why the Police are:

1) Called in situations like this
2) Why the respond to situations like this
3) Why they then don't charge back to the school for false alarm call outs.

Course, problem with the chargeback would be the taxpayers would be paying it, so maybe they shouldn't. But seriously, why are they responding to that? The PRINCIPAL of the school can handle it, especially a 5 year old girl. Only if she has a weapon of some kind, and even then....its a 5 year old. Two people, grab her, pick her up and let her scream for a bit. Sheesh. Then expel her and let the parents (yeah right) deal with her.

 

[El Tejon]

"We're from the government and we're here to help."

From my perspective, I have a question, what's reasonable bond for a 5 year old? A dozen carrot sticks and 4 plastic dinosaurs?

 

[P12]

Two people, grab her, pick her up and let her scream for a bit.

And then get sued.

I don't think teachers can get physical enough with kids to control a child that was behaving like this one was. At least and still have a job or a bank account. Did you notice how she never grabbed her? Just kept blocking. This PC crap is going to blow up in everyone's face pretty soon. And mom, of course, can't be my child. NEVER! NEVER! NEVER! NOT MY LITTLE ANGLE!

Oh, and by the way. THANKS LEONARD NEMOY!

Without corporal punishment as an option, I see a padded temper tantrum room as a solution. Throw 'em in and let 'em out at the end of the day.

 

[Justin]

Oh, and by the way. THANKS LEONARD NEMOY!

I hope you're being facetious. Leonard Nimoy played Mr. Spock on Star Trek. Dr. Benjamin Spock was a hack who made a living foisting bad child-rearing advice on the public for the better part of half a century.

The two are completely different people.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Just a reminder...

Alex45ACP:
A simple smack upside the head would have put an end to this problem immediately. Unfortunately it's not an option for public school teachers today.

I know ya didn't really mean this.

However, for someone browsing here, who has yet to figure out what THR is, any blows to the head can potentially be killing blows. Most especially wth little people.

Now for me, if presented with this situation, tossing a blanket over a 5 year old and rolling her up in it wouldn't be that big of a chore.

However, in these PC times, it could be a better option to remove others and just let the kid wind down...

Someone with a spare donut prolly coulda bribed this kid into acquiescence without all this fuss... Maybe the adults didn't want to share.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Whoever called the cops screwed up, and the cops pooched the whole sitiuation to a Biblical level.

Well said!

 

[MikeIsaj]

Have any of you seen the video? I was up late and saw it on FOXNews. Can't find a link.

My reaction to the thought of a five year old being so out of control she needed to be handcuffed would have been sceptical at best. If you see the video you may change your mind

The video shows several minutes of a large five year old child totally out of control. She is shown punching at the assistant principal and tearing things off the bulletin board. She repeatedly squirms out of the teachers hold and runs accross a table to evade her. There is no audio but she can be seen with her mouth wide open as if screaming at the adults. She continues to scream and defy the police that arrived.

In Pa. as in most states, teachers have the same rights and responsibilities when it comes to safeguarding children and maintaining order. This child is out of control and presenting a danger to herself and others around her if she is not restrained. Nothing illegal in holding her or restraining her for her own protection.

I know it is unsettling to see a child handcuffed but you need to try dealing with some of these little monsters before you judge.

"Call her parents?" How do you think this little girl got this way?

"Don't call the cops?" Why not? It is a violent situation that has the potential to result in serious bodily harm. The fact that the actor is five is irrelevent. I know it's not as sexy as a bank robbery or drug deal but that's part of the job.

Semper Fi!

 

[Talon]

"Don't call the cops?" Why not? It is a violent situation that has the potential to result in serious bodily harm.

Sorry, I'm not buyin' it. You can't tell me that one or two grown adults can't restrain a five year who's goin' bananas. A good butt whoopin is what this kid needs. And you're not going to convince me that it's anybody's fault but the parent's for letting the child get this out of control. We were taught respect as children. And you're not going to convince me that it's anybody's fault but the legislators who decided the schools have to put up with this kind of crap, for the child not being corrected right then and there.

 

[TC66]

Sounds like to me she has not had a good ass whipping in a while and one was long over due. For those of you who don't agree explain why we have such a problem with kids now a days. Doctors drugging them or the parents giving them time out in the corner. Sorry I don't buy it. A good ass whipping never hurt anyone and it sure as hell made me think twice about doing whatever it was again.

 

[ksnecktieman]

What is the big deal with being handcuffed? What would the response be here if she had grabbed a pair of scissors and stabbed a teacher with police on scene? This sounds like trivial nit picking to me. After the police handcuffed this innocent little child, they should have sat her in the principals office until her parents could respond, and then the police should have made a report to child welfare services about a child in need of care. My apologies to all you non violent types, but a little harsh discipline in the next two years may teach this child restraint, responsibility, and respect for rules. If she does not learn it in a very few years she will have to learn it in juvenile detention, jail, or prison.

 

[LawDog]

MikeIsaj,

Saw the video. I'll probably be seeing the video at briefing and at CE training for the next month.

The video shows several minutes of a large five year old child totally out of control.

As far as her being large, I don't get that impression. The lady in the video lifted her off of the table and set her on the floor with no apparent distress whatsoever, and the child was struggling at the time.

There is no audio but she can be seen with her mouth wide open as if screaming at the adults. She continues to scream and defy the police that arrived.

Screaming children are not a law enforcement issue.

This child is out of control and presenting a danger to herself and others around her if she is not restrained.

I don't see that. I see a five-year-old handing out slaps, but I don't see that the slaps are anything more than an annoyance. Certainly the slaps are not presenting a danger to the lady in the video.

It is a violent situation that has the potential to result in serious bodily harm.

You've got to be kidding me. Serious bodily harm? Was there a 9mm in the video that I overlooked? A butcher knife? Nuclear detonator?

Short of a weapon, or a absolutely freakish run of bad luck, there is no way that that child posed a threat of serious bodily injury to any of the adults that I saw in the video.

But, that's just me.

LawDog

 

[akviper]

They called the cops for an out of control person and the cops did what they do. If the cops play the pattycake game with the kid and she ends up jamming a pencil in her or somebody else's eye guess what the headline will be. If they wanted the kid psychoanalyzed they should have called a counselor or social worker.

"Live long and prosper." Leonard Nimoy as Spock.

 

[El Rojo]

You can't tell me that one or two grown adults can't restrain a five year who's goin' bananas. A good butt whoopin is what this kid needs.

But who is going to give it to her? The school? Again, their hands are tied. So you have a little girl who will not cooperate and is being violent, what would you do as a school administrator? Think reality, I know what you want to do, but that is going to end up costing you your job and you will get sued.

So you call the cops. The cops arrive, what are they going to do? Again, you have a 5 year old not cooperating and being very beligerent. No one can find the mother and no one can get her calmed down. What do you do?

The more I think about it, the mother should be held liable. It doesn't really matter what the school or the cops would have done, either way I am sure this mother would end up saying it was too harsh. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Boy this makes me feel better about being in the teaching profession.