Flying in near future, making sure I understand how to travel with a handgun.

[Tilos]

They sure do make it more complicated than it should be for the people that care.

um, that complication is by design to scare gun owners away from traveling with guns.
The confusion posted here is a classic example of this.
just sayin'

 

[danez71]

um, that complication is by design to scare gun owners away from traveling with guns.
The confusion posted here is a classic example of this.
just sayin'

Unfortunately, I think that's true, too often.

In the case of CA DOJ, what they posted on their website could get you arrested.

Ive seen similar in the LASD website... which is one of the agencies tasked with enforcement.

Both have been changed since then a few times.


But my point was, just because they haven't been enforcing a law doesn't mean they won't.

Look at the former president. He's charged using a law that's only been enforced a few times in about 75 yrs. Inflating real-estate happens probably thousands of time every year there.

 

[Sour Kraut]

I had an interesting exchange with a TSA agent once when traveling with my wife and transporting a firearm. My handgun was in her suitcase with an ID tag with her name on it and her claim tag on it. He cautioned me that since I filled out the declaration card for the firearm, that it should not be placed in her luggage and that we could be held up because of it. OMG….. he wasn’t being a total a$$ about it, but warned me that at some airports it could be a problem. I guess he is right, technically, so I was a lot more careful after that. Just a heads up for everyone.

In my experience, Airports, check-in agents and TSA agents and the accuracy of their knowledge varies considerably from airport to airport. Be prepared with printouts for the specific airlines, and the current TSA regs so if what anyone tells you is incorrect, you have supportive documentation. I have traveled extensively with firearms, and the only issue I ever had was the TSA guy telling me about the luggage claim tag. YMMV.

 

[CapnMac]

Please be careful not to place too much trust in the FOPA.

I understand your comment, and concur with it, as well.

But, this being the Legal Forum, the rules of this forum tell us to only quote the law as written, and to not engage in speculation or opinion upon the execution and/or enforcement of that law, or to give into all-too natural political shadings such opinions must needs generate.

The question of the imperfection of FOPA is within the cope of other jurisprudence, and where that occurs, we can gab upon that.

In this situation, we are at enough remove to warrant accepting the thing as it was written. Recall that we are not meant to give advice lay or legal in the Legal Forum.

Had this been in General, then, yes, to the limits of the THR Terms of Service, then we could reflect on our personal experience of having "been there" or reading of such things, to advise OP.

 

[bearcreek]

They sure do make it more complicated than it should be for the people that care.

I know I said I was done with input on this one, by I'd like to point out one more thing. While TSA does allow TSA locks on gun cases, they definitely do not require them. Flying with guns really isn't complicated. I've done it a bunch of times, in and out of airports all over the country. The fact of the matter, in real life, not internet forum theory land, is that it's very simple and only on rare occasions causes even so much as a delay in a person's trip, as long as they're following a few, easy to understand procedures.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

um, that complication is by design to scare gun owners away from traveling with guns.
The confusion posted here is a classic example of this.
just sayin'

The complication/confusion is being perpetrated by scaremongers.

The TSA website provides legal advice to the public, without any legal disclaimer to the contrary, that TSA locks are perfectly acceptable.

 

[RickD427]

I understand your comment, and concur with it, as well.

But, this being the Legal Forum, the rules of this forum tell us to only quote the law as written, and to not engage in speculation or opinion upon the execution and/or enforcement of that law, or to give into all-too natural political shadings such opinions must needs generate.

The question of the imperfection of FOPA is within the cope of other jurisprudence, and where that occurs, we can gab upon that.

In this situation, we are at enough remove to warrant accepting the thing as it was written. Recall that we are not meant to give advice lay or legal in the Legal Forum.

Had this been in General, then, yes, to the limits of the THR Terms of Service, then we could reflect on our personal experience of having "been there" or reading of such things, to advise OP.

Captain,

Not to dwell on the point, but the Forum Rule does not limit quotation of the law "as written." The forum rule (quoted in exact language) is:

"Note: The Legal Forum is for the discussion of the law as it is and how the law actually applies in RKBA matters"

The law "as is" consists both of the Statutory Law ("as written") and the Case Law that interprets it. My purpose was not to communicate my personal view of the law, it was to inform to OP of the Case Law created by the Second Circuit when they issued their decision in the consolidated case of Torraco, Winstanley, and Weasner v. Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. That case law most certainly applies to RKBA matters.

I would have to agree that my words "Please be careful not to place too much trust in the FOPA" would have been inappropriate if they were offered as legal advice to the OP, but it should have been very clear from the context of my posting that those words were were simply prefatory to my citation to the Toracco case.

 

[herrwalther]

My experience flying all over the country since 9/11, when TSA locks became a thing, is TSA locks are a non-issue on gun cases exactly as the TSA instructions state. TSA doesn't care.

TSA may not care. But you can get every single TSA master key on Amazon for about $25. Now your gun case, that is secured with a TSA lock that only the "trusted government" should open, can be opened by anyone with an Amazon account. I put non-TSA locks on my luggage and my gun case. Good locks. I want whatever criminal breaking in to work for it. Whether those criminals are TSA agents or plain clothes criminals.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

TSA may not care. But you can get every single TSA master key on Amazon for about $25. Now your gun case, that is secured with a TSA lock that only the "trusted government" should open, can be opened by anyone with an Amazon account. I put non-TSA locks on my luggage and my gun case. Good locks. I want whatever criminal breaking in to work for it. Whether those criminals are TSA agents or plain clothes criminals.

More scaremongering.

A small bolt cutter is quicker and less effort than sorting through a bunch of keys to find the one that'll open a TSA lock. It requires time, opportunity, and a discreet location out of view of eyes and cameras to tamper with and break into luggage.

I've had TSA open my luggage without informing me (they're supposed to put a notice in the bag when they do but they don't always do). The TSA locks inform me they've been in my bag.

I've flown extensively with pistols in my bags with zero issues, flying many times a year since the mid-1990s.

I've had TSA cut the padlocks on my bags, including a full-size padlock on a military duffle bag, from the period shortly after 9-11 to about 2008, when I started using TSA locks.

If TSA cuts your lock(s), then your luggage is accessible to everyone.

 

[wayneinFL]

More scaremongering.

A small bolt cutter is quicker and less effort than sorting through a bunch of keys to find the one that'll open a TSA lock. It requires time, opportunity, and a discreet location out of view of eyes and cameras to tamper with and break into luggage.

I've had TSA open my luggage without informing me (they're supposed to put a notice in the bag when they do but they don't always do). The TSA locks inform me they've been in my bag.

I've flown extensively with pistols in my bags with zero issues, flying many times a year since the mid-1990s.

I've had TSA cut the padlocks on my bags, including a full-size padlock on a military duffle bag, from the period shortly after 9-11 to about 2008, when I started using TSA locks.

If TSA cuts your lock(s), then your luggage is accessible to everyone.

When I started working in telecom, I had a padlock on my toolbox. Habit from when I was a mechanic locking up a large toolbox. One of my coworkers told me someone would just steal my whole toolbox. Duh.

They have found dumpsters full of suitcases at airports. There are thieves coming into airports stealing bags off the carousel every day. (Somebody's going to say their gun bag was at the baggage office, but the majority of airports/airlines it rolls out on the carousel with everything else.) If anyone thinks a bag they can pick up and carry into an airport is secure because it's locked they're kidding themselves.

I know security of your firearm is off topic for legal, but I think it's important. I've flown hundreds of times and never lost a bag for more than a day but it does happen. I wouldn't be checking anything that's a precious family heirloom- nothing that I couldn't afford to lose. Have pictures and serial number in case you have to report it stolen.

 

[herrwalther]

More scaremongering.

Scaremongering? Baggage handlers and criminals getting keys online has been reported at dozens of airports. And is the number one way baggage theft happens. Far more than bolt cutter robberies. You can fly how you want to but personally, I want a lock that doesn't have hundreds of keys all over.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

Scaremongering? Baggage handlers and criminals getting keys online has been reported at dozens of airports. And is the number one way baggage theft happens. Far more than bolt cutter robberies. You can fly how you want to but personally, I want a lock that doesn't have hundreds of keys all over.

Gee, somewhere along the baggage handling process, pesky terrorists could also sneak a bomb inside your luggage to blow up your plane.

The bottom line is, you can legally lock your gun case using a TSA lock.

 

[drobs]

Since coming home in 2019 from working overseas for 10 years, I have flown with handguns 3x.

I use keyed alike non-TSA locks, the guns and magazines are unloaded. Ammo in factory boxes. Knives and holsters go in on top of the guns.
Everything is locked up at home. The Pelican vault is placed in my suitcase at home.

At the check in desk I notify the attendant that I'm checking in A firearm. I place my soft sided zippered suitcase on the scale facing them. They give me a card that states the firearm is unloaded, which I sign. They stick that card on top of my locked case inside my suitcase.

They always ask me to wait around for a bit 15-30 minutes in case TSA / LE has questions or needs me to open / unlock the case. I have never needed to unlock it. My Pelican vault is plastic and easily x-rayed at the airport.

Side note, make sure you have CCW reciprocity with Nevada. I'm pretty sure NV doesn't recognize my MO CCW License.

 

[wayneinFL]

Scaremongering? Baggage handlers and criminals getting keys online has been reported at dozens of airports. And is the number one way baggage theft happens.

Where did you get that statistic? I have never met anyone who had an item pilfered from their luggage, but I know several who have lost an entire suitcase. Not saying you're wrong, but I want to see the statistic that conflicts with the small sampling that is my experience.

Either way I wouldn't take my gun on a plane if it's irreplaceable, uninsured, or I wasn't willing to risk the loss. I would keep the serial number on hand. I'm not betting on any padlock to keep an item the size of a shoebox from walking out of a facility with as many people and vehicles coming and going as an international airport.

 

[herrwalther]

Gee, somewhere along the baggage handling process, pesky terrorists could also sneak a bomb inside your luggage to blow up your plane.

Now who is "Scaremongering"

The bottom line is, you can legally lock your gun case using a TSA lock.

No one ever said you couldn't. The decision to do so is stupid in my opinion. You do you.

Where did you get that statistic? I have never met anyone who had an item pilfered from their luggage, but I know several who have lost an entire suitcase. Not saying you're wrong, but I want to see the statistic that conflicts with the small sampling that is my experience.

Bag thefts are at all time highs every where. Any Google search can tell you as such. No lock is going to keep a criminal out forever. But why would someone get a TSA lock that can be opened by master keys you can buy from all over the internet? "If a lock opens for one key, it is a good lock. If a lock opens for 1000 keys, it is a ****ty lock." Thousands of bags go missing every year. There are entire stores dedicated to buying stuff found in unclaimed baggage or baggage found. A family member of mine recently bought over 10K of raw turquoise at a fraction of the cost because it was claimed merchandise they buy wholesale. Just because "friends" have never had stuff taken, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

How common is it for airport officers to steal valuables from luggage?

I've heard that this happens frequently with the TSA in the United States and almost always in checked-in bags. I'll be travelling soon to Los Angeles for a holiday and I don't know whether to be a...

travel.stackexchange.com

 

[Old Dog]

Lots of folks seem to way overthink the whole thing about flying with handguns.

I fly to and from Seattle-Tacoma to several airports throughout the year and throughout the country multiple times a year. I always fly with one or two handguns in my checked luggage.

Frankly, Sea-Tac kinda sucks to fly out of, since it makes me go to the TSA guy at the oversize baggage office to have him apply the sniffer to my bag, Chicago O'Hare is horrible for every reason in the book, Detroit Metro is actually awesome in and out, Tucson is easy, Miami hit or miss, San Diego is pretty consistently time-consuming but friendly, and I don't even bother to fly with firearms to NY, NJ or DC anymore (it adds at least two to four hours on either end plus a lot of stress and aggravation).

Worrying about bag theft is akin to worrying about getting hit by lightning. Since I no longer golf, sit in my bass boat in the middle of lakes during storms or run cross country races, I don't worry about that.

 

[wayneinFL]

Now who is "Scaremongering"



No one ever said you couldn't. The decision to do so is stupid in my opinion. You do you.


Bag thefts are at all time highs every where. Any Google search can tell you as such. No lock is going to keep a criminal out forever. But why would someone get a TSA lock that can be opened by master keys you can buy from all over the internet? "If a lock opens for one key, it is a good lock. If a lock opens for 1000 keys, it is a ****ty lock." Thousands of bags go missing every year. There are entire stores dedicated to buying stuff found in unclaimed baggage or baggage found. A family member of mine recently bought over 10K of raw turquoise at a fraction of the cost because it was claimed merchandise they buy wholesale. Just because "friends" have never had stuff taken, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

How common is it for airport officers to steal valuables from luggage?

I've heard that this happens frequently with the TSA in the United States and almost always in checked-in bags. I'll be travelling soon to Los Angeles for a holiday and I don't know whether to be a...

travel.stackexchange.com

Again, what is your basis for the claim that the number one theft is people opening TSA locks and stealing stuff out of bags? Not just taking the whole bag?

If it makes you feel better, put a Pelican case with Master padlocks and cable lock it to your suitcase. Bolt the thing in there for all I care. The easiest way to steal your gun is still for some hobo to just stroll out the front door with your roller bag.

 

[herrwalther]

If it makes you feel better, put a Pelican case with Master padlocks and cable lock it to your suitcase

That is pretty much what I do already. And with smart tags like Tile you know when your bag grows legs that aren't yours. As I have said a few times in this thread. If someone is going to steal my firearm, I am going to make it as hard as possible. I want them to work for it. Putting a TSA lock on that anyone can get the key to is making theft easier.

Last time I used a TSA lock was about 13 or so years ago. I had the same mindset "TSA can be trusted." In my carry on bag I had two lighters bought inside the "secure area" of an airport I was layover in Germany. Still in the packages. TSA approved stickers on them. TSA swiped my lighters and didn't even leave a thank you note. Now maybe if I had a real lock on my bag, I would have come across a lazy TSA agent that wouldn't have bothered cutting it off to take my bad, evil lighters. Having a real lock could have made a difference. Won't know because I trusted TSA.

 

[Balrog]

I don't see in the TSA regulations where it specifically says that the hardsided locked handgun case can go inside my regular suitcase. But that is how I should do it, right? Locked handgun case inside the regular suitcase?

 

[drobs]

I don't see in the TSA regulations where it specifically says that the hardsided locked handgun case can go inside my regular suitcase. But that is how I should do it, right? Locked handgun case inside the regular suitcase?

Yes that is how you should do it.