Flying with Handguns

[Alex Clayton]

Why carry at all then?


Never asked the question in this thread as to the “need” to carry on business travel. It was you that presumed my safe return from all my travel.

Many do not really believe they will ever "need" a gun. Most of us will go our entire life and never need one so odds are good. I have never really tried real hard to change the people who are take it or leave it on guns. Have known many who had one at home they never shot, did not even have it loaded. If something "happened" and they needed the gun they most likely would never get it in play under stress. For most they go their entire life and it works fine. For a few unlucky ones when they do need one, well little late then to decide they wish they had it. <shrug>
I chose to always have one with me unless I am walking through a metal detector. Have used one long ago. Would not have a problem if I had to again but, will die happy if I never need one again. To each his own kind of thing.

 

[bearcreek]

Small tip, airline employees are required to inspect the firearm to make sure it is a locked in a "secure" box and unloaded, ammunition in a separate secure box. I found it helpful to have a plastic coated gun lock run through the slide and magazine well, or sometime the barrel and chamber...either way they can see right away it is inoperable and unloaded.

Where did you get this information? I'm not aware of any requirement for an airline employee to inspect the firearm. They're allowed to ask to see it but it's not a requirement. I've had them ask on two occasions and in neither of those did they handle the firearm, only asked me to show them that it was unloaded (while I was standing at the check-in counter ). Based on what I have observed of airline employees, most couldn't tell you the difference between a S&W 642 and an M240, so the last thing they should be doing is handling firearms around people.

Edit: Just to be clear, airline employees aren't the same thing as TSA.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Where did you get this information? I'm not aware of any requirement for an airline employee to inspect the firearm. They're allowed to ask to see it but it's not a requirement. I've had them ask on two occasions and in neither of those did they handle the firearm, only asked me to show them that it was unloaded (while I was standing at the check-in counter ). Based on what I have observed of airline employees, most couldn't tell you the difference between a S&W 642 and an M240, so the last thing they should be doing is handling firearms around people.

Edit: Just to be clear, airline employees aren't the same thing as TSA.

This could be someone who has not tried to fly with a gun since the TSA came into being. Before the invention of the TSA each airline seemed to just make up their own rules on how this was done. I know the one time Feds did step in was with the damn tags. When they first started this demanding to know when firearms were brought they put a red tag on the luggage tag advertising a firearm. Came to be known as the "steal me tag" as it told people which bags to steal. First time they did this to me I cringed at it but it was their rules. Did not take too long for the Feds to stop that crap at least.

 

[Rule3]

Why carry at all then?


Never asked the question in this thread as to the “need” to carry on business travel. It was you that presumed my safe return from all my travel.

No you asked a Hypothetical Question and I answered you in post #21 as well as others offering you a suggestion.

Why carry at all? Well sometimes you just can not or it is not allowed.
It seems you must never go to the Post Office, a Court room, County or State Agencies, Hospitals, Schools, Sport events and many other "forbidden" places??.
How do you mange to survive those times??
Sometime you just need to live on the edge

 

[BreechFace]

No you asked a Hypothetical Question and I answered you in post #21 as well as others offering you a suggestion.

Why carry at all? Well sometimes you just can not or it is not allowed.
It seems you must never go to the Post Office, a Court room, County or State Agencies, Hospitals, Schools, Sport events and many other "forbidden" places??.
How do you mange to survive those times??
Sometime you just need to live on the edge

Sometimes one needs to stick to the subject at hand.

 

[Izzy77]

This could be someone who has not tried to fly with a gun since the TSA came into being. Before the invention of the TSA each airline seemed to just make up their own rules on how this was done. I know the one time Feds did step in was with the damn tags. When they first started this demanding to know when firearms were brought they put a red tag on the luggage tag advertising a firearm. Came to be known as the "steal me tag" as it told people which bags to steal. First time they did this to me I cringed at it but it was their rules. Did not take too long for the Feds to stop that crap at least.

Where did you get this information? I'm not aware of any requirement for an airline employee to inspect the firearm. They're allowed to ask to see it but it's not a requirement. I've had them ask on two occasions and in neither of those did they handle the firearm, only asked me to show them that it was unloaded (while I was standing at the check-in counter ). Based on what I have observed of airline employees, most couldn't tell you the difference between a S&W 642 and an M240, so the last thing they should be doing is handling firearms around people.

Edit: Just to be clear, airline employees aren't the same thing as TSA.

Gawd Guys really? I never said they HAD to handle the firearm, just inspect ( usually just a visual check, especially if you lock it w/ a cable lock like I suggested!)

I flew, as I suggested, way after TSA came into being, the years 2008-2012. You must declare the firearm BEFORE you get to TSA, at least so it was back then....

And so it is NOW, from the DELTA site under "Shooting equipment":

"
Shooting equipment is allowed as checked baggage only. It must fit within the very specific criteria that we outline below.

• Declare to the Delta representative that you are checking a firearm
• Declare the existence of a firearm to security personnel if there's a security checkpoint before the Delta counter
• All firearms must be declared by the passenger to a Delta representative at the main ticket counter
• Present firearm(s) unloaded and sign a "Firearms Unloaded" declaration
• Firearms must be packed in a locked manufacturer's hard-sided container specifically designed for the firearm, a locked hard–sided gun case or a locked hard-sided piece of luggage. Handguns may be packed in a locked hard-sided gun case, and then packed inside an unlocked soft-sided piece of luggage. However, a Conditional Acceptance Tag must be used in this case
• Maintain entry permits in your possession for the country or countries of destination or transit
• Ensure small arms ammunition is packed in the manufacturer's original package or securely packed in fiber, wood, plastic or metal boxes and provide separation for cartridges
• You are responsible for knowledge of and compliance with all Federal, State or local laws regarding the possession and transportation of firearms. For more information about this regulation you can visit the TSA website.
  
• If you are transporting a firearm to the United Kingdom, a permit from the United Kingdom is specifically required. You must contact the United Kingdom for more information about securing this permit
• Until further advised, passengers departing Brussels, Belgium are not allowed to check weapons including, antique, sporting, hunting or toy rifles in their checked baggage
• Customer must be 18 years of age or older
• All firearms checked as baggage must be picked up at the Baggage Service Office upon arrival at your final destination. ID will be required to claim your checked firearm

The following types of ammunition are not accepted:

• Gun powder; such as Pyrodex or Black Powder
• Ammunition with explosive or incendiary projectiles
• Ammunition, including case, exceeding 11 pounds (5 kg) gross weight per passenger

Pistols and accessories must be included in one case and contain:

• Pistol telescopes
• Noise suppressors
• A small pistol tool case
• No more than 11 lbs. (5 kg) of ammunition, including case

Rifles and shotguns must be packaged as follows:

• One hard sided case containing up to four rifles, shotguns, shooting materials, tools
  
• The case must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. All areas designed to be locked must be locked.
• Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted. Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage.
• One hard sided case containing up to five handguns, one scope, tools
• One bow and quiver of arrows and maintenance kit enclosed in a case or container strong enough to protect the bow and quiver from accidental damage
• No more than 11 lbs. (5 kg) of ammunition, including case

An excess baggage fee will apply if checking more than one gun case.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/baggage/special-items/sporting-equipment


But lets not dance around the subject, lets talk with the Authority on the subject, the T.S.A.:


Transporting Firearms and Ammunition

You may transport unloaded firearms in a locked hard-sided container as checked baggage only. Declare the firearm and/or ammunition to the airline when checking your bag at the ticket counter. The container must completely secure the firearm from being accessed. Locked cases that can be easily opened are not permitted. Be aware that the container the firearm was in when purchased may not adequately secure the firearm when it is transported in checked baggage.

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/transporting-firearms-and-ammunition

 

[bearcreek]

Gawd Guys really? I never said they HAD to handle the firearm, just inspect ( usually just a visual check, especially if you lock it w/ a cable lock like I suggested!)

So, I'll ask again. Where are you getting this bit about a requirement for them to "inspect" the weapon? If you read through what you just posted you'll notice that it doesn't say anything at all about a requirement for an airline employee or TSA to inspect the weapon. In most cases they never actually see it, only the hard sided case that it's required to be inside of.

 

[bearcreek]

This could be someone who has not tried to fly with a gun since the TSA came into being.

Could be. That doesn't appear to be the case though, based on his last post. Anyway, either he'll learn something new, or I will. Have to wait and see if he comes up with anything.

 

[Rule3]

Gawd Guys really? I never said they HAD to handle the firearm, just inspect ( usually just a visual check, especially if you lock it w/ a cable lock like I suggested!)

I flew, as I suggested, way after TSA came into being, the years 2008-2012. You must declare the firearm BEFORE you get to TSA, at least so it was back then....

And so it is NOW, from the DELTA site under "Shooting equipment":

"

I know what you were saying.

If there is a NIT to be Picked it will be PICKED!

One needs to cross their I's and dot their T's.
Some will focus so much on the insignificant things. It doesn't matter if it is Acme airlines or TSA or DHS. If they want to inspect or search they can. How many passengers have had the bags opened and find the "nice" little notice in there that bag has been opened inspected?

Some time back even the great Massad Ayoob got things messed up in an article he wrote about TSA locks and keys involved where the TSA lock should be or not be. He was flat out wrong.

Now just another Rabbit Hole Thread.

 

[Frank Ettin]

And let's close this on that note.