Flying with Handguns

[Alex Clayton]

The possibility of delayed, diverted flights, and lost bags is why I NEVER fly without something with me too. If possible I fly with no checked bags but even if I do I always had a carry on with some basics. So if diverted or if bags are lost I still have some clothes to wear when I get there. I have talked to MANY over the years who will not do this and hear them rant when they got to their place with nothing. Lost bags may be found in hours or it may take days. If you get stuck in some other town and they put you up in a hotel it's nice to at least have a change of clothes and such.

 

[edwardware]

If you find your flight diverted to La Guardia, Newark or JFK don't claim your baggage.

Interesting you mention Newark. Before the days of Special Handling tags and claiming bags from the Office, I did get diverted into that morass.

I got my bag, and made it out. I did drive rather more circumspectly 'till the New Hampshire border. Today, I would leave the bag and call the airline in the morning to inquire why my bag wasn't on my doorstep.

The possibility of delayed, diverted flights, and lost bags is why I NEVER fly without something with me too.

Dude.

I spent a week (in summer, mind) in Clermont, France. . . while my luggage spent the whole week in CDG, just a 30m flight away; that's French Customer Service for you. Upon my return, my bag was on my doorstep 4 hours after I arrived home; that's American Customer Service.

 

[Cannibul]

The possibility of delayed, diverted flights, and lost bags is why I NEVER fly without something with me too. If possible I fly with no checked bags but even if I do I always had a carry on with some basics. So if diverted or if bags are lost I still have some clothes to wear when I get there. I have talked to MANY over the years who will not do this and hear them rant when they got to their place with nothing. Lost bags may be found in hours or it may take days. If you get stuck in some other town and they put you up in a hotel it's nice to at least have a change of clothes and such.

That's all nice to know but last time I checked you can't fly with a gun in your carry on bag.

Note that the title of this thread is "Flying with handguns".

 

[dogtown tom]

....FedEx it from yourself at home to yourself at your destination.

Neither FedEx or UPS allow such a shipment. While federal law allows you to do so, it violates both carriers tariffs. Federal law requires that you notify the carrier in writing that its an interstate firearm shipment to a nonlicensee. Failure to notify is a violation of federal law.

For a rifle or shotgun, USPS allows a nonlicensee to nonlicensee shipment.
Handguns? A nonlicensee cannot mail a handgun via USPS and UPS and FedEx won't ship nonlicensee to nonlicensee ....what do you do?

Soooooooo...........instead, find a licensed dealer to receive your handgun shipment. Ask your dealer to inspect, clean or function check your firearm. Federal law does not require a Form 4473/NICS on a firearm received for the purposes of repair, customization or gunsmithing when the firearm is returned to the person who sent it.

 

[Elkins45]

Neither FedEx or UPS allow such a shipment. While federal law allows you to do so, it violates both carriers tariffs. Federal law requires that you notify the carrier in writing that its an interstate firearm shipment to a nonlicensee. Failure to notify is a violation of federal law.

For a rifle or shotgun, USPS allows a nonlicensee to nonlicensee shipment.
Handguns? A nonlicensee cannot mail a handgun via USPS and UPS and FedEx won't ship nonlicensee to nonlicensee ....what do you do?

Soooooooo...........instead, find a licensed dealer to receive your handgun shipment. Ask your dealer to inspect, clean or function check your firearm. Federal law does not require a Form 4473/NICS on a firearm received for the purposes of repair, customization or gunsmithing when the firearm is returned to the person who sent it.

Could you do the converse? In other words, could you get your local FFL to send it to you at your destination?

 

[Nature Boy]

As I stated in my response on post #20, I don't believe the hypothetical situation would ever happen in reality because the airlines I've flown on won't allow you to claim your luggage if your flight is delayed or diverted between your origin and destination, gun or no gun.

Does anyone here have any experience contrary to mine?

 

[dogtown tom]

Could you do the converse? In other words, could you get your local FFL to send it to you at your destination?

ATF regs don't prohibit that. I know of a gunsmith who mounted a scope, sighted in, then shipped the rifle to the owner in Alaska.
The $100 it will cost for a handgun to be Overnighted makes packing it in your checked luggage pretty attractive.

 

[Elkins45]

ATF regs don't prohibit that. I know of a gunsmith who mounted a scope, sighted in, then shipped the rifle to the owner in Alaska.
The $100 it will cost for a handgun to be Overnighted makes packing it in your checked luggage pretty attractive.

What about USPS? A Priority Mail flat rate box would be less than $15 even with insurance. Or doesn't USPS allow a FFL to ship a handgun to a non-licensee?

 

[BreechFace]

As I stated in my response on post #20, I don't believe the hypothetical situation would ever happen in reality because the airlines I've flown on won't allow you to claim your luggage if your flight is delayed or diverted between your origin and destination, gun or no gun.

Does anyone here have any experience contrary to mine?

I have in the past like 10 years ago or maybe more, but not recently. Was delayed due to mechanical and we asked for our checked luggage and was given them.
No experience recently though.

 

[dogtown tom]

What about USPS? A Priority Mail flat rate box would be less than $15 even with insurance. Or doesn't USPS allow a FFL to ship a handgun to a non-licensee?

USPS restricts the mailing of handguns (pistols, revolvers, frames, receivers, lowers, PGO firearms) to shipments between licensed dealers and manufacturers.

 

[alsaqr]

I don't believe the hypothetical situation would ever happen in reality because the airlines I've flown on won't allow you to claim your luggage if your flight is delayed or diverted between your origin and destination, gun or no gun.

Several years ago my flight was diverted to JFK with an overnight. Bags were on the carousel. My bag contained a firearm and i left it.

 

[BreechFace]

Several years ago my flight was diverted to JFK with an overnight. Bags were on the carousel. My bag contained a firearm and i left it.

This is what I feel is the best option when in a state with oppressive gun laws.

I’m assuming your bag was held at the baggage claim customer service for when you got back to the airport? Then did you have to take possession of it to go back through check-in? This would have caused you to break the laws of the land, correct? Or did the airport handle the rerouting and it never came back into your possession?

This is the exact scenario I’m speaking to.

 

[Alex Clayton]

This is what I feel is the best option when in a state with oppressive gun laws.

I’m assuming your bag was held at the baggage claim customer service for when you got back to the airport? Then did you have to take possession of it to go back through check-in? This would have caused you to break the laws of the land, correct? Or did the airport handle the rerouting and it never came back into your possession?

This is the exact scenario I’m speaking to.

This is why I caution people be careful. Airlines are run by humans. What happens 50 times does not mean it will happen on the 51'st. It is not uncommon to get stranded in a city on the way over night. Often the airline will put you up if this was their fault. If you have nothing with you they will let you have your checked bags back to take to the hotel. If you have a gun then yes, you would have to check it back through when you leave all over again. If you are in a state that does not allow the gun you have chances are nothing will come of it but, I would not make myself the test case over the gun and or mags, or even the ammo.
When we fly to see family we send some guns ahead common carrier. When we are ready to leave we send them back to ourselves just to not have to deal with the hassle.
Last I had to fly where I was staying in a Hotel I checked the gun in, and took a carry on with some "essentials" for just in case. That way when I got to where I was going if my bag was lost I would not be there with nothing. If I was stuck in some gun unfriendly state I would leave the checked bag with the gun with the airline to deal with.
The same thing with flying with a gun in general. Ever since they started with this checking them through thing. I cringe when you see several people tell all they do it all the time and it's a snap. It is supposed to be easy. Again humans are involved here. Don't show up without a good time cushion because you "heard" how easy it is. Now and then someone gets a real idiot at check in. Waving the printed out rules in their face, as I often see suggested, will only make this worse. If you get some idiot in charge you have to ask for a supervisor. Someone there will know how it's done and get you through BUT, if you get held up waiting and miss your flight? The airline is going to shrug and say sorry. So show up with plenty of time. Take something to kill time on the other side of the screening. There is often an amazing amount of poor information put on the net about this subject. It can make a nice trip a huge PITA if someone is unlucky.

 

[Frank Ettin]

....When we fly to see family we send some guns ahead common carrier. When we are ready to leave we send them back to ourselves just to not have to deal with the hassle....

What common carrier? I question this because according to their published terms neither FedEx nor UPS will accept a firearm for shipment from an individual to another individual, even if that individual is himself (i. e., the shipper).

• UPS Terms of Service, pg 7 (emphasis added):

  3.7 Firearms and Ammunition
  
  UPS accepts Packages containing firearms or ammunition only pursuant to the following limitations.
  
  3.7.1 Firearms
  
  UPS accepts Packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) only (a) between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), and government agencies; and (b) where not otherwise prohibited by federal, state, or local law from (i) an individual to a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer or licensed collector; and (ii) from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to an individual. The Shipper shall comply with and shall ensure that each Shipment containing firearms complies with all federal, state, and local laws applicable to the Shipper, recipient, and Package, including, without limitation, age restrictions....

  
  
• FedEx Service Guide, pg 140 (emphasis added):

  Firearms
  
  A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
  
  

  1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
  
  2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same)​

  .....

So under both UPS and FedEx rules, when an individual is either the shipper or recipient, there must be an FFL on the other end.

 

[bearcreek]

I’m assuming your bag was held at the baggage claim customer service for when you got back to the airport? Then did you have to take possession of it to go back through check-in? This would have caused you to break the laws of the land, correct? Or did the airport handle the rerouting and it never came back into your possession?

Not necessarily. FOPA technically covers you when you travel through (but not to) a state where your firearms aren't legal. If you left the bag at the airport and then simply rechecked it, it seems as if that would be easier to justify as just traveling through than if you brought it to a hotel and then back. It's a risk either way.

 

[alsaqr]

I’m assuming your bag was held at the baggage claim customer service for when you got back to the airport?

No. The airlines forwarded the bag to my destination.

 

[Alex Clayton]

What common carrier? I question this because according to their published terms neither FedEx nor UPS will accept a firearm for shipment from an individual to another individual, even if that individual is himself (i. e., the shipper).

• UPS Terms of Service, pg 7 (emphasis added):
  
  ​
  
  
• FedEx Service Guide, pg 140 (emphasis added):
  
  ​

So under both UPS and FedEx rules, when an individual is either the shipper or recipient, there must be an FFL on the other end.

The last time I tried to answer a question like this here one of the moderators sent me a threat to boot me over it, so I would have to guess you do not want the answer to your question.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The last time I tried to answer a question like this here one of the moderators sent me a threat to boot me over it, so I would have to guess you do not want the answer to your question.

No, I would like the answer. And I'm sure others would too.

People are constantly wondering how to ship a handgun to themselves when the two common carries most often used for shipping handguns will not accept a handgun for shipment unless it's either going to an FFL or coming from an FFL.

So if there's a common carrier out there with less restrictive policies, it would be useful to know.

 

[Frank Ettin]

The last time I tried to answer a question like this here one of the moderators sent me a threat to boot me over it, so I would have to guess you do not want the answer to your question.

On the other hand, the issue you're alluding to involved shipping a firearm by UPS or FedEx without disclosing that the package contained a firearm.

Now if that's your strategy here, you, and everyone else needs to understand that if you're shipping your gun to yourself, not disclosing to the carrier, in writing, that the package contains a firearm violates not only the carrier's policies but also federal law. See 18 USC 922(e), emphasis added:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped.....

Violation of 18 USC 922(e) is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (plus a lifetime loss of gun rights).

 

[bearcreek]

Legality aside, I can't imagine going through the hassle of shipping a firearm to yourself just for a short trip. It's really very easy to check it with your bag when flying. I realize there are horror stories out there but those are the rare exception, not the rule. I wouldn't do it with a high dollar heirloom or something like that but an every day carry pistol, sure. Done it a bunch of times with never a problem. Couple times it's actually made my trip through the security charade circus faster than other people that were in line at the check in counter with me.

 

[Izzy77]

Small tip, airline employees are required to inspect the firearm to make sure it is a locked in a "secure" box and unloaded, ammunition in a separate secure box. I found it helpful to have a plastic coated gun lock run through the slide and magazine well, or sometime the barrel and chamber...either way they can see right away it is inoperable and unloaded.

Depending on the size of the gun, you can buy a locking cash box at walmart, buy some foam ( I used hobby lobby, but I hear they about gone now), cut to size am make yourself a nice secure box for a medium to small pistol.

Some airline employees are visibly uncomfortable with firearms, one slender dude was visibly shaky, so we went very slow and I informed him of the safety measures taken to secure the firearm. Another time a ticket agent thought I was some kind of "agent" because of my G30, it was hard to convince her otherwise. The more I denied, the more she was convinced it was a secret.

 

[Rule3]

Not in today’s world, I’ll carry wherever I can. Just had business up in North Dakota and in a town of 3,000 people they just had a cop get shot.

GADS! I have traveled to ruthless places like Minnesota and Wisconsin (you know where the Cops kill people and then there are riots) which do not honor my CCW. I stayed for many weeks, I was terrified and stayed in my room the whole time! I got PTSD from the fear of being shot!

So lets say you do not claim your bag and then get to your destination and your luggage has been mis routed?!! Then you have yo wait for a day or two for it to get delivered to you. What to do in the meantime???

You have more of a chance of getting hit by a bus, stuck by lightening or die of food poisoning.

 

[herrwalther]

Legality aside, I can't imagine going through the hassle of shipping a firearm to yourself just for a short trip. It's really very easy to check it with your bag when flying. I realize there are horror stories out there but those are the rare exception, not the rule. I wouldn't do it with a high dollar heirloom or something like that but an every day carry pistol, sure. Done it a bunch of times with never a problem. Couple times it's actually made my trip through the security charade circus faster than other people that were in line at the check in counter with me.

I can see both sides. I have flown with a firearm from one gun friendly state to another with a layover in places like NY JFK airport or Newark airport. The possibility of a layover in places like those is high. Just trying to follow the law is crucial. But criminals and state law enforcement won't care. When I fly with a firearm I have my checked bag (with firearm) and my carry on. The carry on has necessary items like a change of clothes, hygiene supplies, medication, batteries/chargers etc to live off of for a few days if I have to. That way if my layover is long I don't have to take possession of my checked bag (and firearm) should I end up in a non friendly state. In one layover I watched an airline employee lock my bag in a side office near the carousel before leaving the airport on an 18hr layover. I returned to watch my bag load on the plane before flying out. Somehow shipping a firearm to yourself or through an FFL also makes sense when you play "what if" games with your travel plans.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Small tip, airline employees are required to inspect the firearm to make sure it is a locked in a "secure" box and unloaded, ammunition in a separate secure box. I found it helpful to have a plastic coated gun lock run through the slide and magazine well, or sometime the barrel and chamber...either way they can see right away it is inoperable and unloaded.

Depending on the size of the gun, you can buy a locking cash box at walmart, buy some foam ( I used hobby lobby, but I hear they about gone now), cut to size am make yourself a nice secure box for a medium to small pistol.

Some airline employees are visibly uncomfortable with firearms, one slender dude was visibly shaky, so we went very slow and I informed him of the safety measures taken to secure the firearm. Another time a ticket agent thought I was some kind of "agent" because of my G30, it was hard to convince her otherwise. The more I denied, the more she was convinced it was a secret.

Last time I flew with a checked pistol I did this. Have several "gun locks" like that. Coated cable lock. While back every gun started to come with one, think it was some new law. In any case I kept tossing them in a junk box. So grabbed one out that fit the pistol I was taking. Even before they started the TSA I often saw employee's who got the job of "inspecting" the guns who were clearly NOT comfortable with the job. I last time also found a lock box that could use 2 locks. Have heard several people I know who got stuck because the inspector would try to pry /pull at the corners of the box if it had just one lock in the middle, like my old ones did. If they could open the box a little they claimed it was not "fit" for "securing" the gun. So just to play it safe I bought a couple that took 2 locks. The last time I had any real "trouble" was before the TSA came into being. Walked up, told counter person I had a firearm to check through. He said "you can't do that". I said I need your supervisor please. As I stood to the side the one repeated a few times loud enough others could hear, "This guy wants to take a gun on the plane!". So I was getting the standard "looks" from others until the supervisor showed up. Checked the pistol, tagged it and sent the bag on it's way. The original clerk was staring at the bag as it traveled along like he had seen a unicorn
Many will not hear any of this and may get away with it every time they fly, if they fly at all. Suspect a lot of the naysayers never actually fly with a gun but in any case, there is enough info and warning to prepare those who like to have things go smoothly.

 

[BreechFace]

You have more of a chance of getting hit by a bus, stuck by lightening or die of food poisoning.

Why carry at all then?


Never asked the question in this thread as to the “need” to carry on business travel. It was you that presumed my safe return from all my travel.