Followup to Chet Szymecki's arrest

[brerrabbit]

Mods delete or move if dupe or wrong forum. I wasnt sure if this would be legal or activism.

http://media.hamptonroads.com/media/content/pilotonline/2007/08/gunmeeting.html

Basic story is that many many armed citizens decided to show up to a city hall meeting in support of Chet Szymecki after his unlawful open carry arrest by Norfolk VA.

 

[cavman]

"Councilman Paul R. Riddick left the meeting as gun-rights advocates began speaking, he said, in protest of their protest."


Heck of a leader, there, doesn't it seem?

 

[40SW]

I don't understand this one bit, how was he arrested if VA has open carry???

 

[Rumble]

From his accounts of the incident, the Norfolk Police arrested him in spite of both the legality of open carry and the fact that Virginia has statewide preemption. This seems to, in fact, be the case (or at least, the NoPo don't want this to go any further, and the city dropped the charges). I seem to recall that they'd asked him to leave because of something to do with public gatherings and "inciting fear" or other not-actually-legal gun regulations.

He attempted to explain to the officers that they were wrong, which probably did not endear him to them. Not that he did something wrong, but it didn't calm the situation. Again, this is from memory, so I may be off on some stuff.

 

[damien]

I don't understand this one bit, how was he arrested if VA has open carry???

Either it was a mistake or the police disobeyed the law. Either way, the cops who disobeyed the law or did not understand the law should be dismissed.

Councilman Paul R. Riddick should not be reelected if this is how much he cares for the opinion of his voters.

 

[strat81]

Wow, sounds like the attitude my city council would have.

Remember kids, ignorance of the law is not okay unless you are the city council and police department of Norfolk, VA.

 

[jlbraun]

Note in this photo:



The large gentleman in the background of said photo is wearing a 2nd Amendment Democrats sticker.

 

[40SW]

The way I understand it, is that pre-emption allows certain municipalities to trump state statute where it relates to ccw or open carry.
Being a Florida resident, we don't have this problem, thank God.
I hope it turns out ok with this gentleman, if the LEOS were incorrect, they owe him an appology. LEOS need more training as it pertains to state and local legislation with respect to firearms. We can all agree on that.

 

[lacoochee]

40SW, Virginia is set up the same way as Florida, there is state pre-emption of local gun laws.

 

[Bubbles]

In VA localities can not preempt state firearm laws. The only authority localities have with respect to regulating firearms is for hunting. Localities are not permitted to regulate concealed/open carry, purchase, posession, etc.

Is it just me, or are the Norfolks/Va Beach/Newport News regions are in the news every year or so due to preemption issues?

 

[40SW]

Thanks for the clarification gentlemen about VA. It seems to me that with this in mind, the gentleman is on solid legal footing. I would seek legal representation immediatly and sue their butts off.

 

[McKnife]

As sad as this sounds... I hope he gets their jobs, pensions, houses, savings and then some... even their rights to own a gun would be nice.

To make an example of the arresting officers might open the eyes of the rest.

 

[El Tejon]

Maybe. If the officers knew that it was illegal, but arrested him anyway, that's a federal crime and I would hope the USA would take that one.

If I was the wrongfully arrested, I would want to see federal prosecutions more than dollars.

 

[jlbraun]

Vote for this story at reddit. 500,000 liberals read it.

reddit.com/info/2jvwx/comments

 

[vt357]

The guy in the picture is actually wearing a VCDL patch - not the 2nd Amendment Democrats.

The president of VCDL Phil Van Cleave was there with about 100 other members, many of whom were open carrying. Oddly enough many local citizens were also there to complain about other police abuses of power that were not related to firearms.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_082807_gun_protest.7d4a08bb.html

 

[jlbraun]

Man, we in the pro-gun movement have some serious originality issues.

 

[Deanimator]

If I was the wrongfully arrested, I would want to see federal prosecutions more than dollars.

I would rather see brutal civil judgements against the cops than either.

Sue the city and they just raise taxes.

Sue the cops and Norfolk won't be able to find anybody to enforce their next illegal statute.

The Cleveland police union has already told the mayor to chase himself after he ordered the cops to enforce a similar preempted gun control law here.

If you want to deter criminal behavior, there need to be negative consequences to it.

 

[El Tejon]

Ummm, unless the city council votes to pay the judgments against the individual officers (which happens all the time), e.g., http://www.city.west-lafayette.in.us/government/minutes/cc062807 PRECOUNCIL.pdf

No, judgments against the police will be picked up by insurance or the city and that simply means the taxpayers get shafted. Federal criminal prosecutions would get their attention and stop this continual harrassment in Virginia. This was done down there in the 60s when civil rights in the South were threatened. No reason we should not do it now.

 

[ilbob]

No, judgments against the police will be picked up by insurance or the city and that simply means the taxpayers get shafted. Federal criminal prosecutions would get their attention and stop this continual harrassment in Virginia. This was done down there in the 60s when civil rights in the South were threatened. No reason we should not do it now.

This is approaching what some mods consider cop bashing. I urge restraint, even though it appears there is more than enough good cause to bash in this case. We don't need more bannings.

 

[El Tejon]

How is it cop bashing to post what happens to judgments against individual officers or what happened in past civil rights struggles?

Should I haved used "alleged" harrassment? It seems that it is no longer "alleged" if the government is apologizing for their behavior, no?

I have inquired. I did not think that civil procedure and history were forbidden.

 

[Deanimator]

This is approaching what some mods consider cop bashing. I urge restraint, even though it appears there is more than enough good cause to bash in this case. We don't need more bannings.

It's a straightforward legal discussion of Chet's options regarding the criminal acts and civil torts committed against him by specific individuals of the Norfolk PD and City of Norfolk. Not all Norfolk cops, much less all cops were condemned.

Those SPECIFIC Norfolk cops committed discrete and identifiable criminal acts and civil torts. They need to be crushed by the gears of the legal machine. They deserve no more sympathy than the Chicago cop who stomped the barmaid.

As for judgements against them being payed by the city, I doubt it. They pierced their own qualified immunity by engaging in acts they knew or should have known were criminal and or tortious. Based on the city's public statements, I predict that they're prepared to throw those cops under the bus, which is the PERFECT outcome:

1. No Norfolk cops will EVER enforce a preempted law again.
2. There will be labor unrest between the city and the police union. In all likelihood, the police union will emulate the Cleveland police union and instruct the rank and file NOT to enforce any preempted laws. The Cleveland police union essentially flipped Mayor Frank Jackson the bird recently when he made public statements that the city would enforce it's invalid preempted "assault weapon" ban. Since the union's statement, he hasn't explained WHO is going to enforce the ban. I'm thinking that Frank's going to be a busy little critter, running all around Cleveland trying to take people's AR15s...

 

[buzz_knox]

This is approaching what some mods consider cop bashing.

If this is considered cop bashing, then I'd submit that some are, at a minimum, in error.

 

[El Tejon]

I apologize if some thought my post approached cop bashing. It was not my intent to veer off the high road, but I thought my statements were not only correct (and posted a link to a local case as an example) but far from the line.

 

[buzz_knox]

I apologize if some thought my post approached cop bashing. It was not my intent to veer off the high road, but I thought my statements were not only correct (and posted a link to a local case as an example) but far from the line.

You were spot on with your analysis and statements. It's just tensions are a bit high and some nerves raw.

 

[HonorsDaddy]

Just an aside...

...but if any of our law enforcement members believe pointing out the potential civil and legal consequences for violating the rights of those you are sworn to protect constitutes "cop bashing", in my opinion, you should be rethinking what you're doing on a day-to-day basis.

This dovetails nicely with another belief of mine regarding armed people in government buildings: If the government is so concerned about an armed citizen in a courthouse, for example, then maybe the government needs to rethink what its doing.

The Norfolk cops broke the law here. They deserve whatever legal and civil hell comes their way. Pointing that out is no more "cop bashing" than pointing out the potential penalties for murder constitutes racism just because the criminal is a minority.