100 Carrying Handguns On Hips At Norfolk City Council

[illspirit]

"We made a mistake," Councilman Barclay C. Winn said. "It was unintentional."

Balderdash! Wasn't it just like two years ago that the city council went through pretty much the exact same thing when they tried to ban guns in city parks?

 

[rosco22]

My hat is off to brothers and sisters in VA . Great work !!!

 

[XavierBreath]

Let's keep this thread an example of gun owners rising above those who would disarm us. In so doing, our actions have maximum benefit.

If we just beat our chests and behave like lunatics, we will be percieved as such.

 

[Texshooter]

Turn the heat up brothers and sisters.

Make a statement loud enough to make them go deaf.

Turn it up.

 

[Kevin108]

Well, depending on which article you read, there was 30 or 100 of us. In reality, I think it was somewhere in between.

Ignorance of the law does not equal innocence. If you choose not to look at speed limit signs, it doesn't mean you can drive as fast as you want, does it?

The people that are tasked with serving and protecting instead falsely arrested Chet, caused him a permanent injury, threatened his wife with an illegal arrest, and terrified his children.

Norfolk attempted to create and enforce an ordinance it knew was illegal. It knew this because other VCDL members were harassed prior to this event and it was made clear to the City Attorney then just what the laws are and how preemption works. Preemption is not new and any confusion should have been cleared up long ago.

And it wasn't just OCDO/VCDL folks complaining about police harassment. Many other Norfolk citizens were having problems as well:

A handicapped man who walked with a limp and the assistance of a cane was stopped and accused of being intoxicated. His cane was taken away from him while the police were speaking with him. When it was clear he was not intoxicated, his cane was thrown at him and the police stormed off.

A mother was there because her son was stopped while walking a friend home. The police demanded ID from him and accused him of selling drugs. He provided his ID but the police demanded he also tell them his Social Security number. He declined. The police accused him of resisting arrest and he was charged with obstruction of justice.

A father was there because his son was harassed while sitting on his own front porch.

The City of Norfolk and it's police department need a to be taught a lesson. The easiest way to make a point with any bureaucracy is to attack it financially. The Szymecki family has hired a lawyer. Norfolk's going to pay big time.


Here's a few more links concerning our visit to NCC.

http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=131245&ran=72344
http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_082807_gun_protest.7d4a08bb.html
Video - http://hamptonroads.tv/index.cfm?locvid=131262

 

[10 Ring Tao]

I've had unfair treatment at the hands of those in uniform who I thought were on my side, for no illegal act of my own. Seeing him almost shaking with anger brings back those feelings of confusion and violation.

I wish him the best of luck, and hope he gets all that is coming to him.

 

[fantacmet]

Cops not knowing the laws is the reason why for some things such as firearm laws I carry a printout of the state statutes, just in case. It's not that big, I just get the highlights. Thanks to state pre-emption, I only need state statutes, the first two lines of firearm law in Oregon, make it very clear that all local and county laws regarding firearms are nullified.

 

[Apple a Day]

For anyone who's not from the area, Norfolk city council has a long history of being on the wrong side of the 2nd Amendment. They went through the same sort of shenanigans when it came to banning guns in city parks. I was at a couple of those meetings.
The city attourney knew bloody well about the preemption law. Norfolk city council was one of the reasons that VCDL and other folks pushed to get the law put in place.
Cheers,
Apple

 

[JamisJockey]

I'm a fairly tolerant fellow, fletcher, but any law enforcement officer who doesn't know every law he or she attempts to enforce deserves as much blame as a physician who hasn't learned the doctoring craft--and is just as dangerous. A law enforcement officer who doesn't know the law can't enforce it. All he can do is impose her arbitrary will on other people.

While I generally agree with this statement......there is one big smoldering problem with it.
I would expect cops to know the laws on firearms in thier jurisdiction. To encounter someone that is armed, you have to understand if they are breaking the law or not. Howelse can they justfiy getting criminals off the street? Guessing that they are breaking the law with a pistol in thier pocket, shotgun in the gunrack, or open carrying a .44mag? They can't make it up as they go along. They need to know the damn laws, not enforce what they think might be illegal.

 

[30 cal slob]

what is the catalyst that could get federal CRIMINAL charges filed against the City?

the (civil) lawsuit is a no-brainer.

 

[Highland Ranger]

I believe you'd need to charge individuals criminally; can't charge the city . . .

 

[Deanimator]

I believe you'd need to charge individuals criminally; can't charge the city .

That's not necessarily the case. Look at the Film Recovery Services case in Chicago. I believe that a company recovering silver from silver nitrate film stock was charged criminally with the deaths of Polish illegal aliens who were not properly informed of the dangers of the cyanide process used to extract the silver. I think there was a guilty verdict in the case. The city could be considered a corporate entity.

 

[scout26]

Councilman Paul R. Riddick left the meeting as gun-rights advocates began speaking, he said, in protest of their protest.

Anyone else have a probelm with an elected offical walking out in the middle of the meeting ???

 

[tuckerdog1]

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse"

That's what Joe Citizen would get told if he broke a law he was unaware of. But these guys, that "should" know the law, want a pass with just " It was a mistake & we didn't know".

Hope they get financially hammered. Maybe they'll back off after that.

Tuckerdog1

 

[Rich K]

I wish Mr. Szymecki all success in his lawsuit, and VCDL success in changing the city government.

 

[ServiceSoon]

I wish Mr. Szymecki all success in his lawsuit, and VCDL success in changing the city government.

Ditto! If a citizen breaks a law they are punished, like wise if a police officer breaks a law they should be punished.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

A modest proposal: when a pro-rights org like VCDL takes the fore-front on an issue, like this, every gunowner (regardless of state) should send them $5 just as an "attaboy".

I know some folks are tight on cash, but there are tons of us on THR who have steady jobs and a credit-card: http://www.vcdl.org/

Off I go...

 

[Cacique500]

every gunowner (regardless of state) should send them $5 just as an "attaboy".

Or just join them...

When I was in VA I was a member...and now that I'm in GA I'm still a member - VCDL is one of the toughest pro-gun groups out there and WELL deserving of our support...regardless of where you live.

Also make sure you sign up for their free email alert...good information in them...

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Councilman Paul R. Riddick left the meeting as gun-rights advocates began speaking, he said, in protest of their protest.

Anyone else have a probelm with an elected offical walking out in the middle of the meeting ???

Nah.

Just get it on tape and use it to un-elect him when the time comes.

On balance, I tend NOT to elect to office those petulant and childish people who avoid serving their public by sticking ther fingers in their ears while reciting, "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

"Yes, I'm here to serve you -- unless I don't like what you tell me to do."

 

[Eyesac]

Quote:
"Apparently you have some officers who don't understand the law," said the president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Philip Van Cleave of Midlothian.

That's pretty much the case everywhere, and I don't necessarily blame them. There are too many laws and technicalities on the books no matter where you live.

I do. If they don't know, they error on the side of "lock you up and take your gun"? That's just wrong. That kind of decision making ruins lives...

 

[Bobo]

Neither the “city” nor the “police” are responsible for this travesty. They are both organizations comprised of people.

It's the “individual people” that are responsible.

First, the city council members who passed the illegal law.
Second, the city’s attorney if he approved the illegal law.
Third, the Chief of Police who is responsible for his/her officers actions (and should know the law).
Fourth, the police watch supervisor(s) who were in charge at the time (and should at least know the preemption law).
Lastly, the officers at the scene who were directly involved (if they were in doubt about the law they should have checked with their supervisor).

These individuals should be sued. That’s the only way to stop this kind of nonsense.

If the city is sued that may help Mr. Szymecki financially, but it won’t put any fear in the individuals who are responsible or others that may try the same tactics because it will be no loss to them, personally.

I’m not saying the city should not be sued - they have the "deep pockets". I’m just saying that the individuals should also be sued.

It may not result in much monetary recourse for Mr. Szymecki, but it should help put a stop to this nonsense in the future.

 

[Matt King]

Szymecki, a Navy veteran, said he was manhandled and hurt and that his wife, Deborah, his three children and two other children who accompanied them were traumatized.

Does anybody know more about this?

 

[Deanimator]

Does anybody know more about this?

See the vcdl.org website for details.

 

[ilcylic]

If a police officer tries to enforce a law that either doesn't exist, or conflicts with a state law, making the law in itself illegal, isn't that police officer committing a crime?

I believe the legal term is "Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law".