?French? pistol and minirevolver

[Nickotym]

Don't have a picture, but a fellow in my hometown has two handguns he brought home from WWII. Unfortunately he has no bringback papers any more. Couldn't get pictures, but here is what my memory saw. Any help appreciated. If I buy them for a few bucks at auction I will post pictures, auction is on 9-12-06.

First is a semiauto pistol: black pistol about the size of a Baby browning or Colt 1903. Grip panels have an intertwined C A inside an oval or eyeshaped logo. The pistol has some proof markings, but didn't get a good look. Slide has 708 on it, maybe the caliber? Owner thought it shot .32ACP though. Slide is similar to the slide on SW 41. Pistol has safety near the back-top of the left grip panel and a takedown lever above the trigger gaurd. Pistol has trigger like seen on Ballester Molina. Mag release is on heel of pistol. Overall length is about 4-5 inches w 2 inch barrel. No picture so hope this description helps. Owner said he took this pistol off a German soldier.



Second is a mini revolver with a foldup trigger, grip panel is lucite like material with blue paper with 2-3 small stars on it. Grip panel and star motif look like they may have been made by present owner. No markings seen, but maybe some proof marks. Owner said he took minirevolver off some French woman. Has safety marked "sur" in up position and "feu" in down position on left side. Has loading gate on right side. Ejector rod? has halfmoon piece hanging off it. Owner said the minirevoler shoots .25 ACP.

Didn't get to take grip panels off either gun.

 

[Jagermeister]

Does this look like the pistol you have?

JM

 

[Jim Watson]

Sounds like the auto might be a Clement.
Pictures needed for ID.

There were a bunch of those little revolvers for .25 and .32 auto, which are semirimmed cartridges. Feu and Sur indicate it was made in France or Belgium.

 

[Nickotym]

I have seen some Uniques posted on gunbroker, it is not a unique, but somewhat similar.

Jim, do you have any pics of a Clement? I will look on gunbroker and auctionarms and gunsamerica to see if I find any.

Thanks again.

Edited to Add: I looked on google for Clement pistols, don't think this is one. Clement's logo is a c with a sideways A This logo is a C with an upright A intertwined.
did find a page about Belgian handguns and may have identified the mini revo. Will have to look at it again to see.

 

[Jim K]

The pistol may be Spanish; the French bought thousands of that general type of pistol from Spain during WWI and many were later captured and used by the Germans in WWII. But since German officers could buy their own pistols, it could be just about anything that was on the market before the war. Most Uniques, and most Spanish pistols, do not have a separate safety; they have a combined safety and dismount lever above the trigger. The slide does sound like a Clement. (S&W bought the Clement patents and used them in its early auto pistols; they made the Model 41 that way for other reasons, but also liked the idea of a "family look" with the early guns.)

The revolver sounds like one of the tons of small revolvers made in auto pistol calibers (.25/6.35 and .32/7.65) in the pre-WWI era. Most came from Belgium, but they were also made in Germany, France, and Spain. In the U.S. they are generally considered curios, though there is some collector interest. Value is not high, usually running a bit over $100, depending on condition. "Sur" and "feu" are French for "safe" and "fire"; as Jim says, that probably indicates manufacture in either France or Belgium.

Jim

 

[Nickotym]

I think the semiauto had a separate safety lever, but don't remember for sure. The logo doesn't match what Clement used, unless they changed their logo. I will take some pics if I can get them for a few bucks when the auction comes up.