Ortgies .25acp/6.35mm

[vavasour]

JimK,

I just found out I have read your posts (along with those of the incredible Bill Goforth) on another forum, where I was lurking for info about my grandfather's The American Double Action 1st model, 2nd variation (I think).

 

[vavasour]

Friday I ordered the complete spring replacement set (which includes the striker spring) from Wolff. Delivery in a couple of weeks. If that doesn't work, I'll have to try something else.

 

[vavasour]

parts dimensions

JimK
While my pin OAL (1.721) is close to the given one (1.627) and my pin body dia. (.250) is the same as that given, and my protrusion (.213) is close to the given (.191), my spring guide length is .972, considerably longer than the given length of .68. Could it be a non-prototype replacement, and would that matter? It has the groove under the head to retain the spring. It'll catch in the notch if the spring and guide are in place without the pin. It comes down at a better angle into the groove. ???

 

[vavasour]

non sticking firing pin spring guide

Does the firing pin guide have to be tempered? Since mine is longer than spec, I fabricated one by grinding down the head of a roofing tack with a shank diameter similaer to that of the guide I have but with a length closer to spec. It works: stays in the notch, lets me put the slide back on, pushes the grip safety back out, lets the gun cycle.

 

[vavasour]

And . . . It doesn't work.

 

[vavasour]

non catching spring guide

I cut my spring guide down to .68 (after dishing out the head) and it still won't catch. I notice that when the spring and guide are in place (without the pin) and the guide catches in the notch, it's down say 1/32 inch. But when I include the pin in the assembly, I can push the pin down into the notch only a hair. I can't tell what stopping it, whether the length of the pin keeps it from angling down far enough, whether the less deep end of the notch acts like a shoulder keeps the pin up--or what.

 

[gyvel]

The grips on revolvers and on the C-96 Mauser go all the way through the handle, but that won't work on a Browning type auto pistol because of the magazine. Browning patented the idea of screws for holding the grips on an auto pistol with the magazine in the grip. The S&W sort of gets by because the screws don't actually hold the grips on, they just keep them from moving downward.

That is also very interesting. The first gun to use that feature would have been the Colt 1903, I guess. The original 1900 Browning uses swivel plates with screws and all other contemporary guns I can think of generally use one or two screws per grip that thread into the frame.

Regarding striker fired pistols, I generally carry a 1910 Browning for SD, but I have never carried it with a chambered round. I have always felt that, although the chances are astronomically small, that it would be possible for the sear stud to fracture and shear off, resulting in an AD. Over the years, I have seen strikers from Brownings, Colts, Ortgies, Duos, etc., that have either the stud or the tip broken off.

 

[Jim K]

I have been away from this thread for a while and I guess I left things up in the air.

Vavasour, I don't understand the involvement of the firing pin in the assembly problem. When you are hooking the firing pin spring guide into the notch, the firing pin is forward, so it shouldn't interfere with anything.

Gyvel, the early striker fired pistols can fire just that way, but modern striker guns have a safety mechanism that prevents the striker from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled (Glock, S&W M&P, etc.).

The firing pin tip on those old guns often breaks because it is long and thin, designed to be the ejector. Quite often, someone will complain that his .25 Colt or Browning will fire, but not eject. The firing pin is long enough to fire the primer, but not long enough to act as the ejector.

Jim

 

[vavasour]

guide and notch

Jim,
Here's what I was trying to say: When the guide is pushed forward to the point of catching in the notch, the spring is compressed into the tube that is the rear portion of the pin. In that position most of the spring is inside that tube portion of the pin, and the spring guide is inside the spring and some of it is past the ears enclosed. That enclosure limits the angle downward that the guide will travel. Before I cut the guide down to .68, it would only go down to even a shallower angle. If this is clear at all. And I may be barking up the wrong tree. After all,I once spent an hour unable to get the slide back on the frame because I had the recoil spring on backwards!

 

[gyvel]

Gyvel, the early striker fired pistols can fire just that way, but modern striker guns have a safety mechanism that prevents the striker from moving forward unless the trigger is pulled (Glock, S&W M&P, etc.).

Glock's idea, which he copied from the Roth-Steyr 1907, is definitely one good solution for carrying with a loaded chamber.

And, while the Browning designed striker fired pistols have excellent safeties, I still don't trust them with a loaded chamber in front of a spring driven striker.

 

[vavasour]

guide and notch

I just increased the depth of the notch in the slide. Now here's the weird part. I hold the assembled slide, striker, spring and guide under a light by my chair, holding this in my left hand with my left forefinger over the rear of the slide to catch rocketing spring and guide, pushing the guide so that nearly all the spring is compressed in the striker recess, holding it in this position with a chopstick, easing it out until I can SEE the head of the guide at the flat part of the notch, pushing the guide head into the notch by swiveling the chopstick around, BUT the guide head won't go into the notch deep enough to catch, even thought there is plenty of room for it to go. I take the guide back out to the garage and shorten it a little with my grinder and round off the tip so it won't hang on the spring. Still no go.

 

[vavasour]

fix doesn't fix

I got my Ortgies assembled by the method I found in a couple of google searches. Put ths slide back on with the spring guide out of the notch and back toward the safety. With the slide not quite in place, use a thin object to manipulate the guide forward and in front of the safety. Clicked the slide into place. Tested the safety. It pops the strap smartly back. Fired a round. Fine.
That was several weeks ago. Today I put two rounds in the clip. The first fired, the second didn't. I pulled the slide back to cock it. When I released the slide, it fired! I'm not sure what happened.