Fudd; or Gun Culture Bias

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All gun control is treason
Bit of an overreach, I'd say. Re-read Justice Scalia's opinion in Heller. Anyway, arguing constitutional theory doesn't get us anywhere. I would much rather base my arguments on practicality. The gun-banners are unrealistic and impractical.
 
Bit of an overreach, I'd say. Re-read Justice Scalia's opinion in Heller. Anyway, arguing constitutional theory doesn't get us anywhere. I would much rather base my arguments on practicality. The gun-banners are unrealistic and impractical.
The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. What's not to understand? I don't give two craps what Scalia said, anyone who speaks English knows what shall not be infringed means. When Jesus said not one jot or tittle will be removed from the law, did He mean it's okay to steal a little here and there? Of course not. No means no, or at least it used to.

And what you have to realize about the Bill of Rights is that it really was the will of the people. The federal government at the time tried to block it, but the people demanded it. That's why it's so sacred, and why attempting to circumvent it is treason against the people of the United States. Traditionally, the definition of treason was the overthrow of a monarch. Well, here in the US, the people are the monarch, and trying to overthrow the people is the highest treason there can be.

Until the Second Amendment is legally repealed or replaced, actively attempting to enforce gun control is treason. And even speaking about it in the context of enforcing it without repealing the 2nd is sedition.

BTW, the definition of sedition is conduct or speech that incites people to rebel against the authority of a legally established state or monarch. The People are both the state and monarch in this country, and the Constitution is their authority. What @Rocketmedic is doing is sedition by every definition of the word.
 
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Would you support preemptive removal of firearms from people at risk from mental illness?
Ok, I'll bite...

Let's start with some definitions. What exactly is "at risk" and how are you defining mental illness? Lest you forget, or possibly just don't know, there was a time in the not distant past here in the good old US of A that LOTS of people were forcibly institutionalized. Most had never done anything wrong. On top of that a big bunch of those folks were not mentally ill in any sense you would recognize. Parents who didn't feel like raising a child, husbands who wanted out of marriages, and all manner of folks who wanted to take relative's property had people committed without so much as a second thought. Once in, these people were medicated and had zero rights. It took years of litigation to change these practices and many of those poor souls never did get their freedom.

Of course that's an extreme view and we know your intent is sincere. But before you get on a high horse about mental illness you had better figure out exactly who is going to make that determination. Government is not good at those types of things and finding a shady accomplice in a lab coat wasn't too challenging in the past.
 
If you're REALLY serious about reducing crime, here are some steps you can take:
  1. Repeal the 1st, 4th, 5th and 8th Amendments - Random searches and confessions extracted by torture would do FAR more to reduce crime than gun control. Add in the death penalty for minor offenses... imposed by "troikas" in secret administrative hearings and you'll have really taken a bite out of crime.
  2. Impose internal passports and tie people's residences to their places of employment - Serial killing would disappear virtually over night.
  3. Impose preventive detention - Remove anyone who's even a POTENTIAL threat and see the crime rates plummet.
  4. Institute collective punishments - Don't just take the "criminal", take his family too, including children. Children below the age of 14 would go to orphanages or be adopted by the families of [secret] policemen. Those 14 and above would get adult prison sentences.
Come on Rocketmedic; you want a Stalinist style society. Put your money where your mouth is and do it for real.
 
“At risk”...... Well now you’re speaking about something I have 8 years of experience with.

Have you ever been sad about something? Guess what, you have situational depression.

Has anyone ever made you mad? Well now you have anger issues.

Would you be weary of, or refuse to go to an outdoor concert in Las Vegas? Hey, you have a social anxiety disorder.

Have you ever yelled at the television during a football game? Well why would a “normal” person yell at an inanimate object or a projection of a person as if they could hear you? Sounds an awful lot like psychosis to me.

I could give you examples till the sun goes down. And it hasn’t even risen yet here in Oklahoma. So the answer is “no”. Because everyone is “at risk”. That includes you too.

Add the fact that you shot yourself in the foot over the rich committing violent crimes and mass shootings “with LV being the exception”. Remember that the exception you’re referencing is one of the worst mass shootings in US history. How many “exceptions” do their have to be before you realize that rich people are just as dangerous as poor(er) people? And do you realize that since the majorly of low income families are minorities, and you want to disinfranchise them from owning the weapons that can protect those families, you’re making very racist and segregatory statements?
 
but I'd be OK with making all weapons with detachable magazines NFA-able. Increasing the tax to something more like $1000 would be appropriate too.

Good for you, YOU would be ok with that. Well, not to be caustic, who cares what YOU want? It has been obvious that you want gun control. So, go to the anti-gun sites and play among the snowflakes who think like you do. Make sure you tell them that you want to keep the guns YOU like. After all, YOU must be happy, right?

The crap you spew is amazing. It's good to see how the antis think so we can rally the troops. Keep posting your rhetoric. Each post makes you seem less and less credible. Some day you will have zero credibility. That day is really close.
 
Until the Second Amendment is legally repealed or replaced, actively attempting to enforce gun control is treason.
Unfortunately for your argument, treason is defined by the Constitution itself:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
Let's not use these terms loosely. Yes, violating the 2nd Amendment may be "treason" against gun rights, but it's not treason against the country, and cannot be punished as such.
 
. . . some of the members here are very aggressive about their opinions of anything other than complete support for an unlimited version of the 2A.

There are no versions of the 2nd Amendment to choose from. There is one 2nd Amendment, and the phrase, "shall not be infringed" IS unlimited by design.

Any attempt to deceive the people around you into believing that this means anything other than what the founders intended makes you a liar and an enemy of the republic.

Any advocacy seeking to change the 2nd Amendment to a limited statement makes you honest, but still an enemy of the republic.

Yes, these are fighting words. Some of my ancestors died to secure my freedom, and I take that rather seriously. This freedom includes your right to speak and advocate as you see fit, but it doesn't make you any less of an enemy.
 
I'm a little late to the party, but I can't resist any longer.
So here's my take on this: . . . .

I'm not out to stop all crime, or gun crime, or even all 'mass shootings'; I'm interested in dropping the death toll of the ones we see to something 'less' terrible. I think that there's a way to do this while still preserving all aspects of the 2A and the RKBA.
There's a way to enact gun control and preserve all aspects of the 2A and RKBA? I disagree. That's only possible if you redefine the 2A and RKBA, which isn't preserving them. If you think you have a way, post it and I will tell you why it won't work

Let's be completely honest- people will be able to get guns, regardless of whether they are banned or not, and criminals are still going to shoot innocent people and one another, especially in small-scale crime like Chicago. But those gangsters aren't slaughtering churchfuls of people at a single go.
No. They're slaughtering them 2 and 3 at a time in our inner cities, and they're using handguns to do it. As so often happens, I fail to see the point of making firearms more difficult to get for people who don't misuse them.

I'm a strong supporter of proper background checks for all gun transactions, even though I've bought and sold guns FTF before without background checks and I know that checks are limited and no guarantee of future good behavior, I've since rethought that and think we as a community would benefit from universal background checks and hefty penalties if one is caught without those checks.
I don't see how "we as a community" would benefit from them. In fact, I disagree. I think allowing further encroachments into this constitutional right does us more harm than good. Further, there's a 1968 case out there called U.S. v. Haynes which tells me that universal background checks can't be enforced against convicted felons in the first place. If we can't prosecute Carl, the Convicted Killer, for failing to use a background check, why on earth should I have to go through one?

. . . .I think that we ought to have a national Firearms Permit, issued at no cost to the citizen, signifying that a person is competent and legally eligible to own firearms, regardless of whether or not they choose to. . . .
Papiere, bitte.

. . . .I think that we ought to preempt silly state laws that focus on features or ban carry of weapons and put more guns in the hands of good people, and I think that we ought to develop a functional and useful way to determine who isn't able to have a gun and ensure that they don't (legally) obtain one.
I think this claim is at odds with the rest of your post.

I think that guns that are confinscated should be done so with reimbursement at fair market value, and that anyone whose guns are taken from them should have a prompt, speedy and fair opportunity for due process.
You do understand that those things are (by and large) already constitutionally required, with or without your support, right?

I'm pretty much of the opinion that guns save lives and ought to be available to every American citizen and legal resident alien. Heck, I'm even open to reinforcing the 2A to clearly and permanently enshrine the RKBA, carry, stand-your-ground, etc in the Constitution.
"Reinforcing" the 2A? That's called amendment or a constitutional convention. Personally, I'm extremely wary of such a thing. I don't want the 2A rewritten. I don't want it opened up for amendment. I don't want any of the other amendments rewritten, either. In today's political climate, I fear for the 1A.

. . . . I think that we ought to make "assault weapons" an NFA class, with a hefty-but-not-impossible extra price tag and all of the regulations that it requires. . . . .
So how would you define an "assault weapon?" Pistol grip? Shoulder thing that goes up? Or would you just lump all semiauto rifles into that? Words and definitions matter in the law. Vague concepts do not apprise a potential defendant of what conduct is or is not prohibited. Laws which do not so apprise potential defendants are unconstitutional under the "void for vagueness" doctrine.

. . . . personally, I think that we ought to draw it at 20 round or above magazines and treat each magazine in excess of 20 rounds as an NFA item itself, regardless of what it's connected to (this would let us keep most service pistols and standard-capacity magazines normal and available for carry). So basically, your 20+ round magazines would all be treated as NFA items and unlicensed possession would be a criminal offense. Alternatively, I'm OK with making everything semi-auto with a capacity over 10 rounds an NFA item, regardless of length, action, features, etc. Will this stop mass shootings? No, but it will slow the rate of fire.
Here's the thing about rights: The Bill of Rights is a remarkably undemocratic document. It protects the individual from mob rule. IOW, if I have a right to do something, I don't have to give a rat's hiney whether you like it or not. I have a right.

If you want to get rid of every semiauto/detachable magazine/AR or whatever that you have, feel free. I'll suggest that you not try to take mine, though. I keep them, in part, for protection of myself and my family. I suspect that there are millions of gun owners who will not willingly surrender any of their guns. That means that if you want guns confiscated, you'll have to send men with guns to take them. On that note, I'll suggest that you go talk to some of your local police. Ask them how many are willing to go door-to-door confiscating guns. I'll bet it's very few. So who will you send? Antifa with a bunch of Nerf guns and funny hats?

We, the gun owning community, have "compromised" and "compromised" and "compromised," and we've gotten screwed every time. I'm done compromising.
 
I think that we ought to preempt silly state laws that focus on features or ban carry of weapons

I think that we ought to make "assault weapons" an NFA class, with a hefty-but-not-impossible extra price tag and all of the regulations that it requires. . .


These 2 statements are worth noting again as they show the ignoramacy.

It's those silly features, as you say, that are used to define assault weapons by every state that tries to ban them.


So I'll ask again, how do YOU DEFINE them and what do you consider to be people ' at risk'.


As some have noted above, I bet you won't answer with any sense of clarity.
 
One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons.
 
"One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons."

From the OP in this thread:

"At what point are we alienating one another within the gun-owning community? I know that certain members here disparage, insult and belittle those of us who express different opinions regarding how the RKBA should apply"

Physician, heal thyself.
 
Would you support preemptive removal of firearms from people at risk from mental illness?
The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing while expecting different results. All gun control has failed, each and every time that it has been tried.

As a result, since you have shown that you are insane, please turn in all of your firearms at the earliest opportunity.
 
One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons.
I'm a liberal and you're not repealing ANYTHING.

Of course repealing is one thing, taking quite another.

Whom are you going to send to take our guns and what will you do when they don't come back?

Gun control is the tool of slave masters, Klansmen, Stalinists and Nazis.

NO, I REFUSE.
 
"One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons."

From the OP in this thread:

"At what point are we alienating one another within the gun-owning community? I know that certain members here disparage, insult and belittle those of us who express different opinions regarding how the RKBA should apply"

Physician, heal thyself.

And now, to add to Quisling, insane by definition. I again appeal to what small portion of reason you have left that you divest yourself of those firearms you already own and acquire no more.

I sure hope you did not hold such Anti-Constitutional views as you've recently espoused while wearing the uniform of the United States Army. That is what disgusts me the most is that you are a veteran and you hold such views.
 
One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons.
We can't be trusted with assault weapons? I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that not one participant in this thread has ever used an assault weapon for an illegal purpose. Given that, by the best estimates I've seen, there are ~100 million lawful gun owners, very few of whom have used any kind of semiauto rifle for any illegal purpose, the claim that we "can't be trusted with assault weapons" is a stretch, at the very least.

What's more: I think you really need to consider the gun-owning community carefully. Assuming, but only for the sake of argument, that the gun control crowd does one day amass enough political support to enact gun control, exactly what do you think gun owners will do? Cry in our hankies while we shuffle down to some gov't office to turn them in? Have you really considered what enforcement could entail?
 
That is what disgusts me the most is that you are a veteran and you hold such views.

HE says he's a vet.
I doubt anything that he writes here.
He's proven to talk out of both sides of his mouth in this very thread, not counting his other thread ramblings.
He is not to be trusted, IMO.
 
One day, when us liberals are legally repealing your right to own assault weapons, I'll look at this thread and remember why you can't be trusted with assault weapons.

So when you are looking back, what is it that you’ll be saying to yourself why we can’t be trusted to own “assault weapons”? I would actually like to know this.

The vast majority of what was written in this thread (minus some extracurricular terms) by the side arguing against you was patriotic and was lock step with the oath you should’ve taken more seriously in your service in the military to protect the constitution, not shred it when evil in this world acts.

I’m up for discussion as I said in the beginning of this thread, but you’re arguments were junior league arguments that have been around the political block time and time again. There was no point to your arguments that hasnt been dispelled in the past, and until we can get the mouse out of the spinning wheel of ideas there is no point in going forward discussing the same ideas.
 
Unfortunately for your argument, treason is defined by the Constitution itself:

"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."
Let's not use these terms loosely. Yes, violating the 2nd Amendment may be "treason" against gun rights, but it's not treason against the country, and cannot be punished as such.
I'm using the common definitions. It is unfortunate, though, that our country takes such a narrow definition of treason.
 
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