"gangsta" hold and its trajectory

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bandur60

Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Messages
141
Location
Big Sky Country (not in lala land)
Attended a training course for 4H air pistol instructors Saturday, and the subject came up. "How would that work for you?" One person suggested that, if you were using a sub-six hold normally, a "sub-three" hold with the pistol held horizontally would likewise give you a center shot.After some discussion and some not-very-clear explanations, it was decided that, "a picture being worth a thousand words", why not just shoot it and see? On a B-40 AP target at 33 feet, a very good group was fired that impacted low at the level of the 5-ring at the very left edge of the target. Conclusion reached was, if you're being shot at from a "gangsta" type hold, prudence would have you exiting rapidly to the shooter's right (right-handed shooter) to avoid potential harm.

This being THR, I doubt many gangstas will read this; and if one does his comprehension level probably won't allow any profit to be gained from it anyway.
 
I've been taught to roughly compensate for such things in a practical carbine class -- for situations where you must shoot with the rifle rolled over with the magazine horizontal to the ground. Your sights are misaligned now with two different misalignment directions (bullet is dropping "sideways" and your bore, instead of being canted up slightly to provide the initial inclination for the arc of parabolic flight, is now deflected to the left or right depending on which way you're facing).

But that was a quick-and-dirty estimate for fairly close range.

Some of our practical precision rifle shooters (taliv, want to say a few words?) do calculations to get precise first-round hits under those conditions.

From a gunfight standpoint, though, the "exit, stage right" plan is a good one regardless. That's the hardest direction for a pistol shooter to track and keep aligned on you, as you move toward his strong side. Moving across his body toward his support side makes it pretty easy to track the target just by a slight movement of the arm, but most folks will tend to need to move their feet or at least torso to follow a target moving toward their holster.
 
Sam, are you assuming a two handed grip for that "move to shooter's gun side" statement?
 
Not necessarily. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do the "gangsta" thing two-handed. Wouldn't that be very awkward?
 
Two handed sideways would be odd, no doubt. For gansta grip, sight alignment says move toward the grip because the bullet is going the other way.
For a standard vertical hold I don't see it mattering for a one handed grip.
 
I see I think. But my point was that the deflection of aim based on the orientation of the gun is much less important than the shooter's ability to, or difficulty in, tracking a moving target (which would be YOU).

It is considerably harder to track motion toward your strong side and out of your line of force/sight (what I'll call moving outside) than it is to track a target moving across your line of vision and force (which I'll call moving inside).

One reason is that (assuming a right-handed shooter) the target moving inside is crossing the shooter's field of view of both eyes. The shooter simply brings the gun through to catch up to the target. When the target is moving "outside," the target is moving out of that field of view toward the shooter's periphery, and forcing the head to turn lest one eye lose the target completely. The gun and extended arm can even block the view of the target momentarily as the shooter tries to push the gun to the "outside," which is much less likely to happen when the target is moving across in front.

The bigger issue has to do with how your arms and shoulder joints work. It is very easy to keep a gun aligned on a target that is moving across in front of your body, just by sweeping your arm from right to left (for a right-hander) and then pivoting the waist if needed. Lots of range of motion there to work with. For most folks, a full 90 degrees of sweep before they'd have to move their feet to continue to track.

(Think how much harder and less effective it is to punch something standing 20 deg. to your right, if you're right handed, than in front or 20 deg. to your left. Same basic mechanics.)

As the target heads in the other direction, though, it gets awkward. The shooter has less total range of motion available to swing "outside" and tends to want to collapse their stance a bit, retract the gun, and shift their footing to try to push the gun around. Harder. You've forced the shooter to break their stance and reacquire.

It is a much bigger deal with an Isosceles grip (and a HUGE deal if they're still using Weaver), but it is still an issue for a one-hand shooter, and they're starting out less accurate that way anyway!
 
Last edited:
Did you people even consider that the gansta's primary target generally has its mobility limited by the fact that it pants are are falling down constantly?

The hold genally wont cause them to miss their normal target as you can only run so fast with your britches falling off...trust me...i watch a lot of the Cops TV show. :D
 
I remember being taught to shoot that way in MOPP gear/NBC mask.
 
I tried that gangsta hold once at the range. Shot up the target frame. The Dallas swat cops use the gangsta hold when they shoot over their shields. That hold needs the pistol to be held above your head also.....chris3
 
Wasn't the supposed 'gangsta hold' first illustrated in 1966 by Eli Wallach in 'The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly'?
When he shoots the farmer by pointing his revolver sideways over the top of the door.
Wouldn't that make it the spaghetti-western hold?

BTW: Not exactly a new thing....there have been upside down muzzle-loader shoots for at least the 40-some years I've shot flintlocks.
Wait, could it be the 'Nathaniel Bumpo' hold?

.
 
Seems to me, if my old memory is still half there, that the horizonal hold was started by the Israelis as a Israeli special ops tactic shortly after Munich 1972. It was a bit more to it than the "Gangsta" hold, such as the left hand gripping the right forearm with it held center mass, or something like that, but that was the first time I had ever seen a horizonal hold technique. I believe they abandoned it later.
 
Last edited:
The only reason in the world to hold a gun sideways to shoot at an attacker is if the situation/position/cover, etc dictated it. Period.

Trajectory is a non issue, as we are not going to be far away. All the other things mentioned, such as little things like mind set and ability, are far far more important.
 
Not that I am proud of it, but I have shot pretty good groupings in gangsta style. I have always wanted to try it from a prone firing position, which I think might work best.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

K
  • Locked
Looks like gangsta but is not gansta style
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
WarMachine
W
T
  • Locked
"Gangsta"! firearm buysers/shooters
2 3 4 5 6 7
Replies
172
Views
15K
The Undertoad
T
W
  • Locked
Vermont HS Girl holds 8 National Shooting Titles
Replies
5
Views
565
SquirrelNuts
S
K
  • Locked
Trigger guards and proper hold
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
REAPER4206969
R
D
  • Locked
Metallic silhouette shooting catching on
Replies
1
Views
1K
blades67
B
Back
Top