getting into autos

Black bears in my area are pretty common and have had them in my yard, that was reloacted several times , it was very large and was tagged a few times .

Even had one climb up on my back deck a couple years ago after a bird feeder my wife used to leave up ( did mention to her that was a bear magnet in the Spring )

Have been near them a couple of times where they were eating blueberries and they did not pay attention to me , so I slowly backed up the other way .

There are plenty of cubs around and that situation with Mom deciding she does not want me around them would be a concern of course.

Just want to be prepared even if the chance is slim of one charging me .

An like people have stated lots of quality practice with a handgun is only going to be a benefit .

Who knows may end up carrying it for times when not in the woods .
 
Just a few thoughts on black bears and handguns. No handgun will easily stop a charging bear in its tracks, the good news is a charge is extremely unlikely. First alert the bear to your presence - bear bells, second be alert, bears can be incredibly quiet and fast moving, third rather than killing the bear (difficult with a handgun) think bear spray, or an air horn. If you elect to carry a handgun I’d recommend your .38 Spl, ammo is the key think Buffalo Bore .38 Spl +P Outdoorsman, 158 gr hard cast SWC @1250 fps, or solid copper (Lehigh Defense), you need penetration. Whatever you settle on, select ammo with maximum penetration, and be sure to practice.
 
I can understand you're concern over running into black bears while hiking, but for your first semi-auto I would recommend starting out with a 9mm. One of my favorites is the CZ P07. While it does have a polymer frame it is hammer fired, not striker fired. It also has DA/SA trigger on it and has the capability of switching from using a decocker in DA mode to also using a thumb safety for SA mode, so you can carry it in Condition 1 (Cocked and Locked) All the parts to complete the switch are included and it's very easy to do.

There's was also a .22 Kadet Conversion Kit available for less expensive practice. It is no longer being imported but you could probably find a used one online.
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FLAT,

My 2 cents is to go to a gun shop and try the trigger (if they will let you) and dry fire some pistols and see how they feel in you hand. Grip size and shape can be quite different from on pistol to the next.
Once you find a gun you like the feel of and how the trigger feels, then see if it is returnable to the store if it does not work for you. Most stores will say no to this or offer you a fraction of your purchase price.
So you may want to call around and see what guns are available to rent at local ranges.. You may love a GLOCK 19 in 9m.m. or hate it. Same for a 10 m.m. pistol, a .40 S&W or a .45ACP.


Right now, I am wearing a GLOCK 19 9m.m. pistol. It is my agency duty gun and I do not have any choice in the matter. I can qualify with it, but shoot better with my BERETTA M9A3 pistol or SIG 226 or 229.
The M9A3, which has the VERTEC style grip is the BERETTA 92 model with the straighter grip as also used on the 92X models. I find that I prefer that straighter grip as the smaller circumference of the grip makes it easier for me to pull the trigger.
My brother, who is one inch taller, prefers the traditional, rounder 92F/M9A1 style grip, so it can be a small difference that makes the gun fit you.

If you go with an auto, but want a larger caliber, I strongly suggest you try that caliber first and in the gun you want to buy.

I carried a .40 caliber S&W as a duty gun for 20 years and we eventually dropped the .40 caliber because it was too hard to get officers qualified with it.
We started with a large pistol, the BERETTA 96 in .40 and while I found them easy to shoot, reliable and very accurate, plain clothes officers thought they were too big and some officers had trouble with the large grip. We also found that the very powerful ammo we used wore out the guns in 10 years. Smaller guns will be easier to carry and conceal, but may have unacceptable recoil.

If you go to a 10 m.m. the gun will be larger, usually and the recoil heavier.

The same goes for the .45ACP. Easy to shoot in a 1911 that weighs 2 and a half pounds, but maybe more than you want to lug around on your belt.

It is always a trade off for portability, power and controllability.


Another option is the .357 magnum. You can get .38 Special size guns chambered in .357 magnum without going to the heavier intermediate size guns like the S&W 586/686 L-frame guns or the COLT Python or RUGER GP-100. These last guns are heavier and bulkier. I have carried them on duty and prefer mid size guns like the old RUGER Security Six revolvers. These guns were similar in size, weight and bulk to the S&W K-frames, but stronger. You may also consider a S&W model 19 or the model 66, which is a stainless steel version of the model 19. They are both mid sized and chambered for the .357 round, but my experience with them is that they lack the strength of the RUGER Security Six.
I would alway go for at least a 4 inch barrel.

If I were going to choose a bear gun for the woods, I think it would be my BERETTA 96 Brigadier in .40 S&W with the very capable FEDERAL 180 grain HST ammo that my agency used to issue or a .357 magnum revolver with REMINGTON 158 grain sjhp ammo. This ammo will expand from a 4 inch barrel, but penetrate deeper than the 125 grain ammo used by police with great success. My revolver would be either my old blue RUGER Security Six with a 4 inch barrel and PACHMAYR Gripper grips or my S&W 681 with 4 inch barrel and HOGUE grips. Both have great triggers and shoot really well.

Jim
 
Personally, I would find an indoor range closest to you. Call them up and have them give you a list of semi-auto handguns they have for rent. Then do some research at home on that list and see if there are several that fit some criteria, at which point schedule a time to go in there and shoot each of those handguns.

Between 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, 45ACP; figure out which handgun does the following for you:

1. Is controllable, comfortable, accurate in YOUR hands.
2. Does it have enough capacity in the magazine for your needs, I would suggest at least 10-12 rounds
3. For an outdoors gun I would suggest a handgun with at least a 3.5-4" barrel to get velocities up on the cartridges, and would give greater preference to 40 S&W, 10mm if those are shootable to you.

For me I personally I carry a 10mm in the woods and a 9mm on the streets.

As you mentioned you thought this handgun would serve dual purpose of woods gun and street gun? If I read that correctly, I would look into a 40S&W. Find a range that has several reputable brands of 40 S&W handguns (i.e. Glock, S&W, Ruger, Sig, Walther, etc) and try them out.

I think the 40S&W is a great balance of serving both the streets and woods needs. There are ammunition options in the 155-165gr weight that are easier to handle in the right handgun, and then one can step up to hardcast 180gr for woods carry. I would be looking at handguns similar to the Glock 23 which is a 4" barreled gun which holds 13+1 in the standard magazine.
 
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Going to get in touch with the one indoor range I have in my area that rents out guns and see if their list they have online rental wise is current.

Looks like the rental place closest to me will not rent to a single user , may have to see if I can get a friend to go with me .

Figure try a few options out like you all have suggested and see what feels the best and is the most accurate in my hands .

The capacity is what had led me to wanting go to the auto over the 38 special that I have .

I know we should make noise if we are hiking in the woodsand I will but lots of times I am walking into my hunting spots and trying to be quiet.

Going to keep the bear spray at hand and the gun I end up being for the just in case a bear does decide it wants to come my way.

Will have to check out the indoor range for practice to get proficent on whatever weapon makes the grade .

Thanks again for all of you advice everybody .
 
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flatsticks said:
Figured i wouls get your thoughts and experience on getting into the auto pistol world ..

Currently been using a 38 special and that has been my only handgun .

Figred since I am out in the woods a lot and there are a lot of black bears maybe the 38 would not be the best choice.

I always have a rifle with me but it may be over your shoulder and not as at the ready .

Was looking at 10 mm possibly , as people seem to think a 9mm may not be enough .

Can also use the new gun for self defense and who knows maybe end up carrying like a few of my friends do .

Looking for something that will not be too hard to handle since I dont shoot pistol that often .

Going to need to get out more to a range where I can shoot pistol , the one near me closest target is 50 yards .

What are your thoughts ? thanks
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9MM, 10MM, .40, .45 ACP…all valid choices. Full metal jacket flat nose ammo works great in the boonies if penetration is needed.

Police trade in guns are a great way to get started:

This or a Glock 22 would be a solid option:


Other options here:

 
tactikel said:
Just a few thoughts on black bears and handguns. No handgun will easily stop a charging bear in its tracks, the good news is a charge is extremely unlikely. First alert the bear to your presence - bear bells, second be alert, bears can be incredibly quiet and fast moving, third rather than killing the bear (difficult with a handgun) think bear spray, or an air horn
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Then, the question, "How do you identify bear scat?" "It smells like capsicum, and it has little bells in it..."

For the OP, go with the suggestion of a service size 9mm, a G19 or a P320. They are just useful guns; there's a reason the military and the police use them.
Personally, my woods walker is an M340 SC, the first two chambers with snakeshot, the last 3 with FMJ Fiocchi 140s. Though it's hard to say what would hurt more, a mauling, or shooting the Ti Smith with magnums.
Moon
 
Screenshot_20231120-203612_Gallery.jpg

329 pd 44 magnum
Glock 20 and 29 10mm.

Either way I figure if I'm shooting at a charging bear I'm probably screwed. Lol. But I'll give it my best shots.

I don't feel a bit more or less well armed 10mm vs 44 mag. More capacity and faster followup vs more power.
 
We have Black Bears that inhabit our area of residence. I don't bother them and they don't bother me. Its been that way for 27years.
 
Since the OP has used and is familular with his 38 revolver I would either just use heavy loads in it or consider a similar designed 4" 357 with heavy loads. S&W, Ruger, and Tuarus all have medium and large frame models that are great man or black bear stoppers. A full magnum powered 125 HP bullet in the 357 is hard to best in stopping power and might be my choice.

If a man or bear is charging you it is very unlikely that you would have time to pull your weapon out and fire more than a few rounds regardless of the gun type. There is zero chance that you will have a jam, an empty chamber, or the saftey on with a revolver.

A quality OWB holster is suggested - there is no need to CC in the woods or on your own property. A bear wont know the difference and a lunatic is likely to go elsewhere if he sees a weapon within your reach.
 
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Hangingrock said:
We have Black Bears that inhabit our area of residence. I don't bother them and they don't bother me. Its been that way for 27years.
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Same could be said about people in about 99.9% of our cases. Should we discount ever being targeted by those too?

But I do agree. People drive miles to bear hunt where I'm at yet I survived as a kid with nothing but a bb gun or 22 rifle. Seen several bear but never been attacked.
 
If a bear is charging you, all the good stuff is up front, including the face and chest area. Black bears generally aren’t that tall at the shoulder, so you likely will be standing taller than the bear. That means you either have to lead it, crouch down to its level for a straight shot (which limits your mobility), or risk shooting it farther back than the face or even hitting the ground behind it. Pretty much any standard FBI Spec duty gun round is capable of punching through the face, chest or spine, although hard cast or mono-metal solids could provide a little added insurance and increase depth of penetration. Be sure to practice with your hands on the gun in weird positions, and one handed, to be sure it functions under less than perfect stress conditions. Also, if a bear gets to contact distance, don’t jam the muzzle of a semi-auto too hard into the critter, or it may go out of battery and fail to fire. (If that happens, back the gun up a slight bit and fire away.)
 
My hiking anywhere days are over but if I still could and was worried about black bears I would chose the 40 caliber, probably in a full size M&P. It may be consider short and weak by some but it definately has more whop than a 9 mm and the gun mentioned is just about as easily controlled as it is in 9 mm.
 
9mm is probably the best overall caliber. Cheaper to shoot for more practice, yet there are some quite capable defensive rounds available. It isn't the best choice for the woods (or against bear), but specialty makers like Buffalo Bore and Underwood do make heavy 9mm for just that purpose so it can be pressed into that role if that is what you have (same with .38spl).

For a specific woods gun for bear defense, you are better off with a bigger and heavier round. 10mm is good for an auto, but you are generally better off with revolver calibers. .357mag can be good (in heavier loads) for black bear, .44mag and .45LC would be even better. That said, against bear, bear spray is probably your better bet.
 
Hangingrock said:
We have Black Bears that inhabit our area of residence. I don't bother them and they don't bother me. Its been that way for 27years.
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I've had the same experience. This year alone we've had them in our yard a dozen times we know of. Lately they've been foraging bulking up for winter. Many years & many black bears but never been aggressive. Still I'm prepared in case that changed. One getting inside the house and feeling cornered is my biggest concern.
 

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I was stationed in Alaska, once at Elmendorf and again at Galena Airport out on the Yukon River. I carried a 4" Model 29 loaded with 240 gr. hollow points when I was out in the woods. That was probably enough for black bears in the interior, but I was dubious it would do much against a Kodiak Bear along the coast.
 
flatsticks said:
Figured i wouls get your thoughts and experience on getting into the auto pistol world ..

Currently been using a 38 special and that has been my only handgun .

Figred since I am out in the woods a lot and there are a lot of black bears maybe the 38 would not be the best choice.

I always have a rifle with me but it may be over your shoulder and not as at the ready .

Was looking at 10 mm possibly , as people seem to think a 9mm may not be enough .

Can also use the new gun for self defense and who knows maybe end up carrying like a few of my friends do .

Looking for something that will not be too hard to handle since I dont shoot pistol that often .

Going to need to get out more to a range where I can shoot pistol , the one near me closest target is 50 yards .

What are your thoughts ? thanks
Click to expand...
Glock 21 or 1911 in 45 Auto with a threaded barrel would be a good option. I just picked up a 21 Gen 2 and it shoots like brand new.
 
Barmcd said:
I was stationed in Alaska, once at Elmendorf and again at Galena Airport out on the Yukon River. I carried a 4" Model 29 loaded with 240 gr. hollow points when I was out in the woods. That was probably enough for black bears in the interior, but I was dubious it would do much against a Kodiak Bear along the coast.
Click to expand...
Likely better served with solids or soft points for bear, but a 4" 29/629 (even better, a Mountain Gun, it's just lighter) is about as good as it gets, if you are really concerned about a bear stopper on your hip.
I saw a picture of the inside of the front of a school bus, with an 870 racked over the windshield. At first I thought "That driver doesn't put up with any drek." Then it came out that the bus was in Churchill, on Hudson's Bay. The concern was Brown or Polar bears.... An 870 full of slugs is another option, but not as handy as a .44.
Moon
 
flatsticks said:
Was looking at 10 mm possibly , as people seem to think a 9mm may not be enough .
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Don't under estimate the 9mm, as I understand the 9mm will make lungs explode.:eek:

Any how, I am going to rock the boat here and go against everyone's suggestion though they all are very credible...for the experience shooter not you. I would recommend you do 3 things first:

1. Go to a gun range and rent out a gun with the caliber you are interested. This may be expensive if you try out several guns and calibers but you will have an informed decision when you do settle on the type of gun and caliber.

2. Since you do not practice or shoot a lot I personally would recommend a lighter caliber round like a .380 caliber in a nice sized pistol frame smaller than a regular 1911 but a little larger than a compact, specifically the Browning Black Label handgun. I know people always want a bigger caliber with a 100 round magazine that weighs 5 ounces and fits in your front pocket, but that will never happen. Most importantly, what good does it do to have a larger caliber handgun for self defense when you don't practice enough to be proficient, especially under highly stressful situations and you miss every shot. The .380 in the Black Label handgun has a very mild recoil and has a longer sight radius giving you a better chance of hitting what you are aiming at under highly stressful conditions where you life is at stake.

3. For me this would be my personal choice. Buy a Browning Buckmark or the Ruger Mark IV in a 22lr and practice with this. Both handguns in my opinion are equally reliable and accurate. You can practice enough with either handgun, buy 2000 rounds for $115 and develop your shooting skills which will transfer to a centerfire pistol. Practicing with a 22lr is very economical and will maintain your proficiency with any handgun and caliber.
 
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Unpopular advice perhaps, but I think you would be fine to keep that 38 and get some 158 gr hardcast rounds from underwood or Buffalo bore.
 
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