Autoloader vs Revolvers...

Which one do you prefer and why?


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Nor would I.

But I would not put "fun" among the requirements.

Reliable, shootable, comfortable to carry, adequate in terms of capacity, safe, effective cartridge, yes. "Fun"? No.

A gun is a tool, Marian.

Except of course for ...


But don't all those attributes you list result in a fun gun? They usually do for me. So yes it is probably not a requirement but is always seems to be the result for me.

Tools are not fun? I enjoys my tools too, gun, hammer, wrench etc etc etc... Some are funner than other but a good tool is always enjoyable.
 
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Tools are not fun? I enjoys my tools too, gun, hammer, wrench etc etc etc...
When I strap on my carry pistol every morning, I do so only for the most serious of all possible reasons.
 
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Nor would I.

But I would not put "fun" among the requirements.

Reliable, shootable, comfortable to carry, adequate in terms of capacity, safe, effective cartridge, yes. "Fun"? No.

A gun is a tool, Marian.

Except of course for ...


Well, I'm not Shane and neither are you, cowboy. If you don't have fun while engaged in the shooting sports you are doing something wrong.

Carrying on duty or off is serious but I also own .22 rifles that are anything but serious. Killing cans may be life and death to you but it's fun to me.
 
Semi auto's. First and most importantly I shoot them more accurately than revolvers. I understand that's not everyone, but it is me. Higher capacity, faster reloads and the ones I carry are completely reliable. Revolvers do offer larger calibers than are available in a semi auto, and for those needs it tilts the scale towards revolvers.
 
For my purposes I prefer semi-autos. They are what I shoot the most. I do own one revolver. It is an old Dan Wesson .357. I like it & have carried it in the past when in the woods. I carry my autos more so I shoot them more. Make no mistake I believe the Dan Wesson & my Ruger SR-1911 are my nicest handguns but striker fired polymer framed handguns are what I shoot. I don't especially like snubnosed revolvers but if someone else does that is good too. To be honest I'm not a big fan of pocket sized 9mm pistols either. I have a little Kahr CM9 & it is a nice gun but I would much rather shoot my S&W M&P 2.0 Compact. It is a lot easier to shoot well just because it is there is more to hold on to.
 
When I strap on my carry pistol every morning, I do so only for the most serious of all possible reasons.
As any responsible concealed carrier should, BUT that does not preclude other emotions/thoughts. I may "strap-on" my CCW is all seriousness while also remembering the IDPA match I won the previous weekend with it or the range-trip where I taught a friend to shoot with it etc.
 
Lol...
Hey ‘bore, how far does your aversion to exceeding requirements go? Do you not eat anything but a gruel made up of rice, beans, and yeast extract because it ”meets requirements” and eating other foods might be fun?

Exceeding requirements isn’t some sort of moral failing.Requirements are requirements because they are minimums, and (outside of a few cults) exceeding minimums is what humans do to live well.
 
it is in a holster, so it really doesn't matter.

murf

As long as it's still there when you reach for it and that you don't find yourself grabbing the barrel b/c it got moved around. Not to mention now you're faced with the same problem as the guy whose cheap, crappy holster comes out of his pants along with the gun....

What trainer in the world would ever recommend sleeping with a gun under your pillow, holster or not? I bet none.

There are a myriad of much more suitable ways to keep a firearm close at hand during the night. Hell, even laying it on the nightstand is better.

It is painfully obvious that some of y'all have never given any serious thought to the potential downsides.

It's a lot like working on your car supported only by a jack. People get away with it all the time. You might get away with it 10000 times but all it takes is one failure and very bad things can happen. Anyone with any sense will tell you not to. Ever.
 
Lol...
Hey ‘bore, how far does your aversion to exceeding requirements go? Do you not eat anything but a gruel made up of rice, beans, and yeast extract because it ”meets requirements” and eating other foods might be fun?

Exceeding requirements isn’t some sort of moral failing.Requirements are requirements because they are minimums, and (outside of a few cults) exceeding minimums is what humans do to live well.
What "aversion"? Ed, you have missed the point--entirely.

I am perfectly happy to exceed requirements, though exceeding some may compromise others.

My point was that "fun" is not something for which I look in a CCW.

In a target or belt pistol, or in something else to enjoy on the trail, or at the range, yes.

But in those, I am likely to place greater precision over a combat-appropriate balance of speed and precision in terms of priority; comfort for all-day carry may not matter very much; capacity can be sacrificed to a greater extent; I don't really need concealment.

Again, when I strap on a carry pistol in the morning, "fun" is the farthest thing from my mind. Effectiveness ranks first, comfort second.

In terms of mindset, I am aware that should the need to draw materialize, priority one will be to preserve my life, and that it is a given that my life will be changed very much at that moment.

There is nothing fun about self defense. When we train and practice to improve and maintain our defensive skillset and mindset, we are not "going shooting".

That is not to say that I dislike defensive shooting practice. It's just that I find other aspects of the shooting sports more enjoyable.

And again, "fun" is not an attribute for which I look in a defensive weapon.
 
Nah, I didn’t miss your point. I think you are being pedantic.

The person you are replying to said, to paraphrase, “this meets my requirements, and it’s fun.”

In response you’ve been expressing the moral position that “fun” and “CCW” should be mutually exclusive. And that’s fine. I’d argue it’s your first amendment right to hold that view. But it’s a personal view for you.

It’s equally valid to say that a firearm which meets requirements for CCW and has other desirable attributes too is better than one which just meets requirements. It’s not immoral, and someone who wants more than basic utility isn’t wrong.
 
The person you are replying to said, to paraphrase, “this meets my requirements, and it’s fun.”
Not exactly.

He said "I took a snubbie class as well a few years ago. Very enjoyable. I like shooting the Snubbie. Just a fun gun to shoot and I carry one ... the Snubbie sure is fun and convenient and I shoot it well."

I replied that fun and enjoyability are not, in my opinion, very good reasons to choose carry weapon, and that there are more effective choices that are equally convenient.

In response you’ve been expressing the moral position that “fun” and “CCW” should be mutually exclusive.
"Moral position"? Not at all.

I was discussing requirements.

It’s equally valid to say that a firearm which meets requirements for CCW and has other desirable attributes too is better than one which just meets requirements
Surely.

It’s not immoral, and someone who wants more than basic utility isn’t wrong.
I do subscribe to the idea of "more than basic utility".

What might morality have to do with it?
 
You say “in my opinion”... that’s very important. Requirements (of this sort) are by their nature subjective. They are a statement of opinion.

Your have stated your opinion, your personal requirements, several times in this thread, in a way that many would take to imply that someone not sharing that opinion is demonstrating moral failings. If that wasn’t your intent, then you may want to revisit your writing style.

The person you replied to stated what I take to be their personal requirements (convenient and they shoot the gun well...I suspect there is a “doesn’t need to be said” requirement that it also reliably fire a cartridge they consider effective), and that it’s a fun gun to shoot. That’s exactly what I paraphrased.

They mention that they took training because you tried earlier to imply that anyone who had training would know better than to have different requirements than you.

Morality is, to simplify, principles by which a person differentiates good and bad. When you write about how super serious about this you are, you are expressing something you consider good based on your personal morality. The implication is that people who do not follow your moral principles are, in your eyes, less good. If that wasn’t your intent, again, think about adjusting your writing style.
 
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I "came of age" as a budding gun nut in the late seventies/early eighties. This is an important reference point because at that time most gun information came from magazines and the like.

At that time the magazines were in the transition from revolvers to auto-loaders. As such, I was exposed to a plethora of revolver vs auto-loader torture tests and similar comparisons. So were a lot of other early Gen-Xers.

There is no way that I can say that it didn't influence me. Pretty much, my only revolvers are black powder.
 
For hunting revolvers offer heavier and stronger platforms. Equal care and training to both, revolvers are still the most fail safe: with one hand if a misfire happened another pull of the trigger rectifies it. Generally semi autos require more training and mechanical skill for long term ownership. For beginners, nothing is simpler than rolling out the cylinder of a revolver to confirm its loaded status.
That said, although raised on revolvers I increasingly use and carry semi autos now. Depending on choice, they tend to be more concealable and I shoot them better...I think generally most shooters do. My primary two arms now are a Sig 938, which is my primary ccw, and a Colt 1911. I do believe to be truly competent a shooter needs to know how to totally care for his weapon, and there semi autos do require more experience.
So, for concealed carry and camp/ woods carry, my chosen semi autos.
For plinking, hunting and "truck" use? Revolver. Single action.
 
You say “in my opinion”... that’s very important. Requirements (of this sort) are by their nature subjective. They are a statement of opinion
Not exactly, but no set of requirements applies to all.

The person you replied to stated what I take to be their personal requirements (convenient and they shoot the gun well...I suspect there is a “doesn’t need to be said” requirement that it also reliably fire a cartridge they consider effective), and that it’s a fun gun to shoot. That’s exactly what I paraphrased.
Okay. I do not take it that way.

They mention that they took training because you tried earlier to imply that anyone who had training would know better than to have different requirements than you.
I do not know anyone who has availed themself of realistic defensive shooting training, up to and including FoF training, who believes that a five shot capacity firearm would be desirable for primary carry. This subject has been discussed here ad nauseam over the years.

Morality is, to simplify, principles by which a person differentiates good and bad. When you write about how super serious about this you are, you are expressing something you consider good based on your personal morality. The implication is that people who do not follow your moral principles are, in your eyes, less good. If that wasn’t your intent, again, think about adjusting your writing style.
I have never mentioned morality, nor have I alluded to it. How did you come up with that?

I have not discussed "good and bad"--only what realistically applies to what.
 
Not exactly, but no set of requirements applies to all.

Every set of requirements, whether it’s the result of an individual deciding what matters to them, a police department hiring a consultant to write something up, or a military spending a decade in endless committees, is a statement of opinion. “This is what I think matters, based on the things I think are important.”

Equally rational, intelligent, and educated people can reach very different conclusions due to differences in values. Even when a requirement is based on some empirical research, it is a values expression because the choice of what types of empirical information to include and how much weight to give it is, again, a matter of subjective values.

There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just the nature of life. The problem comes when people start thinking that their opinion has some objective reality because it aligns so nicely with their values. That’s a mistake of reasoning.

I do not know anyone who has availed themself of realistic defensive shooting training, up to and including FoF training, who believes that a five shot capacity firearm would be desirable for primary carry. This subject has been discussed here ad nauseam over the years.

Primary carry for what, where? Your definition of “primary carry” appears to be limited to one context (the one that is personally relevant to you), but the world is a wide and wonderful place. It is naive to think that your idea of “primary” would be relevant outside your specific context.

I have never mentioned morality, nor have I alluded to it. How did you come up with that?

I have not discussed "good and bad"--only what realistically applies to what.

Again, if it wasn’t your intent, consider adjusting your writing style.

But: when a person simplifies a complex problem down to a part that can fit in a conversation, and says “this is important to me”, they aren’t showing that the problem is simple. Rather, the are demonstrating/expressing their values. The problem remains as complex as it ever was.

When someone has done that, and another person comes along and says, “I never think about that, the important bit is this one over here,” well, we clearly haven’t changed anything about the problem. We just have a values conflict. There are now two “right answers” derived from analysis of the same objective facts by people with different values. No problem at all.

But when that second person then goes on to say things along the lines of, “I know of nobody who has had the kind of training I respect and is willing to express a different opinion in my presence!”, well, it creates the impression that it is more than a simple values difference. It is being treated as moral issue. The person doesn’t see it as a difference between several valid opinions, but as a good opinion vs. a bad opinion. That makes it a moral position, whether the moralist acknowledges it as such or not.

Also, pro tip: saying you don’t know anyone who <something >... immediately raises the specter of people saying they, “don’t know any homosexuals”. Whether you are right or wrong in your assessments of other people’s private beliefs, readers will question whether the actual issue is that you make it clear that you won’t accept divergence, so the people who disagree just don’t talk to you about certain things.
 
We can see by the numbers on the poll at the top of the page that revolvers are just as popular as pistols.
I like to tailor my reloads to fit my personal shooting preferences. I prefer not scattering empties all over the ground.
I prefer the looks, the feel, the balance, the simplicity, the history, and the manual of arms of my revolvers.
20200229_163808.jpg
 
We can see by the numbers on the poll at the top of the page that revolvers are just as popular as pistols.
I like to tailor my reloads to fit my personal shooting preferences. I prefer not scattering empties all over the ground.
I prefer the looks, the feel, the balance, the simplicity, the history, and the manual of arms of my revolvers.
View attachment 914244
Based on my memory of the last time we had an age poll around here I am guessing the revolvers are doing as well as they are due to that skew to the more seasoned age brackets arounds here as much as anything. This poll would be heavily in favor of the semi-auto on many other firearms forums.
 
Based on my memory of the last time we had an age poll around here I am guessing the revolvers are doing as well as they are due to that skew to the more seasoned age brackets arounds here as much as anything. This poll would be heavily in favor of the semi-auto on many other firearms forums.

I suspect you are right. I’m on the younger side for THR, and I have technically carried both types but the revolvers were only when I had a specific reason. Generally I default to the semi-auto.
 
Every set of requirements, whether it’s the result of an individual deciding what matters to them, a police department hiring a consultant to write something up, or a military spending a decade in endless committees, is a statement of opinion. “This is what I think matters, based on the things I think are important.”

Equally rational, intelligent, and educated people can reach very different conclusions due to differences in values. Even when a requirement is based on some empirical research, it is a values expression because the choice of what types of empirical information to include and how much weight to give it is, again, a matter of subjective values.

There is nothing wrong with that. It’s just the nature of life. The problem comes when people start thinking that their opinion has some objective reality because it aligns so nicely with their values. That’s a mistake of reasoning
Yes. That's not a bad discourse on one aspect of requirements derivation--at its worst..

We always try to be as objective as possible The decision to not require super cruise in the F-35 was based on objective analysis, and not on what someone thought to be important.

Primary carry for what, where? Your definition of “primary carry” appears to be limited to one context (the one that is personally relevant to you), but the world is a wide and wonderful place. It is naive to think that your idea of “primary” would be relevant outside your specific context.
We are speaking, or course, of concealed carry for self defense, which was the subject of the kind of training to which the poster referred.

But when that second person then goes on to say things along the lines of, “I know of nobody who has had the kind of training I respect and is willing to express a different opinion in my presence!”, well, it creates the impression that it is more than a simple values difference. It is being treated as moral issue. The person doesn’t see it as a difference between several valid opinions, but as a good opinion vs. a bad opinion. That makes it a moral position, whether the moralist acknowledges it as such or not.
That's ridiculous.

It is neither a values difference nor a moral issue.

The top trainers, and members and staff here who have trained under them, are largely in agreement that a five shot firearm is less than ideal for primary carry for self defense. That's not a selection of one among other "valid opinions"--it is reflective of the very well known facts hat defenders are, for good reason, trained to keep shooting until the threat is neutralized, and that that may well take five or more shots to do so.

We have had numerous videos posted here showing how six and more hits have been required to stop criminal assailants. Personally, I like idea of having a little margin.

Back to snubbies: back when I carried one, I read a book by Ed Lovette on the subject. Even then, I sensed that he really regarded the five shot handgun as best suited for backup. A t the end of the book, Lovette pointed out that, in his view, the snub revolvers then on the market were less than ideal, and he lamented the passing of the six shot Colt Cobra and Detective Special revolvers.

I now have a Kimber K6A.

I think that most people who have thought about it would now choose six shots over five for self preservation.

And most people these days select semi-autos for self defense.

Regardless, my comment was that I would not choose to carry a handgun for self defense because I considered it to be "fun", which was what was said, your "paraphrasing" aside.

A good one may be fun, but that would not be a very good selection criterion for something that is so deadly serious.

For decades, I have thought shooting all firearms and spring-powered guns--including my first defensive carry pistols--to be fun. But when it comes to self-preservation, that cannot be a valid consideration. It has to be how well can one use it, in the gravest extreme.
 
Based on my memory of the last time we had an age poll around here I am guessing the revolvers are doing as well as they are due to that skew to the more seasoned age brackets arounds here as much as anything. This poll would be heavily in favor of the semi-auto on many other firearms forums.
Inexpensive cookie cutter high cap 9mm, in tandem with low priced ammo is pretty appealing.
 
Based on my memory of the last time we had an age poll around here I am guessing the revolvers are doing as well as they are due to that skew to the more seasoned age brackets arounds here as much as anything. This poll would be heavily in favor of the semi-auto on many other firearms forums.
Could be.

I'm over 75.

For CCW, I prefer a semi-auto, for capacity and because I can shoot one better in realistic defensive training.

Those who have not availed themselves of such training may not really appreciate that kind of shooting. There is a big difference between shooting one shot per second and concentrating on group size, and shooting four or five per second and trying to keep them all in a pie plate at short ranges.

For fun, I tend to prefer revolvers. Age speaking? Dunno.

I do not hunt, but if I did, I would choose a revolver.
 
Yep, I have fun with my 5 shot revolvers know their limitations, have other semi's I shoot and carry. And could care less what someone else thinks about the 5 shot. It obviously worries them more than myself. Life is too short to worry about what others carry
. I did find this article very interesting from a Younger Generation competitor.And even more interesting is that we both have something in common although our ages are different.

PS. I have other guns I carry EDC, Semi Auto's. And guess what. I love shooting them as well. Heck I love shooting all my guns.The more I love em, the better they shoot, which is fine with me.

I always come back around to the wheel
Posted on July 18, 2014 by Caleb

https://www.gunnuts.net/2014/07/18/i-always-come-back-around-to-the-wheel/

[So I carry a j-frame. But I shoot this gun, a lot. I’ve even competed with it, and did pretty well at the IDPA BUG Match. Maybe I’m not serious about my self defense because I do carry a j-frame. Or maybe, the longer I do this for a living, the less I worry about what other people think of my carry rig.
 
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