Gifting handgun to family member

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George Dickel

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I've searched the forum and ATF website and can't find the answer. I'm waiting on a call back from the ATF. I live in FL and traveled to TN for Christmans with family. I brought 2 handguns as gifts to my Grandson. If memory serves correctly I need to do a transfer through an FFL to him. I have contacted 10 gunshops in the area and they all say because it is a gift that I brought with me there is no requirement to go through an FFL as long as my Grandson is lawfully allowed to own a firearm. I believe this is wrong but sometimes I read something and interpret it incorrectly. Need some advice quickly as I have to return to FL in the morning and I don't really want to take the guns back with me unless necessary.
 
Moderator note: Be advised: notwithstanding South Prairie Jim's post, a transfer of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL. See post 6.

George Dickel said:
I've searched the forum and ATF website and can't find the answer. I'm waiting on a call back from the ATF. I live in FL and traveled to TN for Christmans with family. I brought 2 handguns as gifts to my Grandson. If memory serves correctly I need to do a transfer through an FFL to him. I have contacted 10 gunshops in the area and they all say because it is a gift that I brought with me there is no requirement to go through an FFL as long as my Grandson is lawfully allowed to own a firearm. I believe this is wrong but sometimes I read something and interpret it incorrectly. Need some advice quickly as I have to return to FL in the morning and I don't really want to take the guns back with me unless necessary.
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I gifted a pistol to my Daughter without any transfer requirements, if 10 gunshops told you the same thing what’s the problem ?
 
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You must take the guns to a FFL and have the FFL transfer the guns to your grandson as you are not residents of the same state.

If you maintained a residence in both FL and TN only TN law would apply.
 
Moderator Note: Be advised: notwithstanding South Prairie Jim's post, a transfer of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL. See post 6.

GRIZ22 said:
That's fine if you both reside in the same state.
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Nope
Washington to Montana without issues.
 
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South Prairie Jim said:
I gifted a pistol to my Daughter without any transfer requirements, if 10 gunshops told you the same thing what’s the problem ?
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If you and she were residents of different States, you each violated federal law (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5). Each violation is punishable by up to five years in federal prison (and includes a lifetime loss of gun rights).

South Prairie Jim said:
Nope
Washington to Montana without issues.
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Except the transferor and transferee each violated federal law (18 USC 922(a)(3) and 18 USC 922(a)(5)). Each violation is punishable by up to five years in federal prison (and includes a lifetime loss of gun rights).

  1. Under federal law, any transfer of a gun (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. And a handgun must be transferred through an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.). There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  2. In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

  3. In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence. In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

  4. There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

  5. The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

  6. Here's what the statutes say:
    18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

    (a) It shall be unlawful—
    ...

    (3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph


    (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

    (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and

    (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

    ...

    (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to


    (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

    (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

    ....

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
    ...

    (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph


    (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

    (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​
    ...
    Click to expand...

  7. Violation of these federal laws is punishable by up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It also results in a lifetime loss of gun rights.
 
 
South Prairie Jim said:
Moderator Note: Be advised: notwithstanding South Prairie Jim's post, a transfer of a firearm from a resident of one State to a resident of another must go through an FFL. See post 6.


Nope
Washington to Montana without issues.
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By “without issues” do you mean you didn’t get caught?
You realize that you are still on record as the owner…
 
I run a gun group here where I live. One member wanted to sell a hand gun that he purchased from his sister in a different state. He wanted to sell it here and I refused to put it on my mailing list for my group due to the fact that he did not go through an FFL to bring it into our state.
Three gun shop owners in the area told him he was good to go with the transfer for a variety of reasons.
I researched the situation to the Nth' degree and realized that gun shop FFLs may know the laws about passing a gun over the counter, but they often don't know squat about passing them from one non-FFl to another privately.
 
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If the OP lives in Florida, how did he buy handguns in TN? Unless he is a dual resident???????
 
heyjoe said:
its unbelievable that ten gunshops,
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George Dickel said:
There are lot of FFL's in this area who don't know the law
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I live in a bordering state but right on the TN state line. It's closer to town in TN. and I can buy a long gun in TN. Ive had MANY stores refuse to sell me long gun. The big box stores always get it right but the smaller stores are 50/50. One chain store that's still local to TN refused to sell me an old savage one but their sister store of the same name sold me a shotgun that day.

I'm sure it's not just TN though.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I live in a bordering state but right on the TN state line. It's closer to town in TN. and I can buy a long gun in TN. Ive had MANY stores refuse to sell me long gun. The big box stores always get it right but the smaller stores are 50/50. One chain store that's still local to TN refused to sell me an old savage one but their sister store of the same name sold me a shotgun that day.

I'm sure it's not just TN though.
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Then they get into the "neighboring joining" States which I never got a valid answer to when I was up there.:uhoh:
 
I know that being a resident in Minnesota if I purchase a firearm in neighboring North Dakota it must be delivered to an FFL across the border in Minnesota.
 
Rule3 said:
Then they get into the "neighboring joining" States which I never got a valid answer to when I was up there.:uhoh:
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From the inception of the Gun Control Act of 1968 until passage of FOPA in 1986, a person could not buy/receive a firearm except from a licensed dealer in his own state of residence. An allowance was made for buying or receiving long guns in "contiguous states", ie the states that bordered your state of residence, as long as the sale of that firearm was legal in both. That "contiguous state" restriction disappeared in 1986 with the passage of FOPA. Now a person can acquire a rifle or shotgun from a licensed dealer in any state, as long as the sale is legal in both.

Despite "contiguous state" not being a restriction for thirty five years, more than a few think it still a thing.
 
crestoncowboy said:
I live in a bordering state but right on the TN state line. It's closer to town in TN. and I can buy a long gun in TN. Ive had MANY stores refuse to sell me long gun. The big box stores always get it right but the smaller stores are 50/50. One chain store that's still local to TN refused to sell me an old savage one but their sister store of the same name sold me a shotgun that day.

I'm sure it's not just TN though.
Click to expand...

Please keep in mind that the federal law contains a provision that allows FFL's to sell "Rifles" and "Shotguns" to residents of any state. Many moons ago it only applied to adjoining states, but now it applies to all states. But it's important to note that it only applies to "Rifles" and "Shotguns". It does not apply to handguns and it does not apply to bare receivers. It also requires the FFL to abide by the state statutes of both the FFL's state and the purchaser's state. Unless the out-of-state FFL is familiar with the state law in your state, don't expect them to complete the transfer. Please refer to 18 USC 922(b)(3) for the particulars.
 
RickD427 said:
Please keep in mind that the federal law contains a provision that allows FFL's to sell "Rifles" and "Shotguns" to residents of any state. Many moons ago it only applied to adjoining states, but now it applies to all states. But it's important to note that it only applies to "Rifles" and "Shotguns". It does not apply to handguns and it does not apply to bare receivers. It also requires the FFL to abide by the state statutes of both the FFL's state and the purchaser's state. Unless the out-of-state FFL is familiar with the state law in your state, don't expect them to complete the transfer. Please refer to 18 USC 922(b)(3) for the particulars.
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That was my point. And we do border Tennessee anyway. The rifle was an old savage 99. To this day about half the stores there still say they can't sell to NC or TN. Very annoying when it's an old used gun you can't just go get anywhere
 
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