Glock 22 vs. Bersa Thunder 40...Help me close the "sale" to my beginner friend....
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Kayaker 1960
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Glock
I've never even held a Bersa pistol. I've had a Gen 3 Glock model 22 for about 20 years. It's not pretty, it does indeed feel just a little blocky in my hand. That being said, it just plain works. I've shot competition with it, put thousands of rounds through it and it just keeps working. Accuracy is good, it's not too heavy and it's so reliable it's down right boring.
As far as the 9mm vs .40 The "9mm is just as good" argument doesn't make any sense to me at all. Shoot anything with each of them and it's very easy to see that the .40 hits harder and knocks things down faster.
I've never even held a Bersa pistol. I've had a Gen 3 Glock model 22 for about 20 years. It's not pretty, it does indeed feel just a little blocky in my hand. That being said, it just plain works. I've shot competition with it, put thousands of rounds through it and it just keeps working. Accuracy is good, it's not too heavy and it's so reliable it's down right boring.
As far as the 9mm vs .40 The "9mm is just as good" argument doesn't make any sense to me at all. Shoot anything with each of them and it's very easy to see that the .40 hits harder and knocks things down faster.
wow6599
Member
You own a Glock?
David E
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We took video. It jammed for the owner, my friend and me.You were particularly unlucky to find a Bersa jammomatic...or this is the internet and anybody can say whatever they want....
Doing a quick search on the problem turned up quite a few other folks experiencing the same jamming problem. Hate to break it to you.
But you can keep pretending all Bersas are perfect, or that parts/mags/accessories are plentiful, cheap and easy to find..... but that changes nothing.
IdahoSkies
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Get as many guns into his hand as you can. Let him choose. Most semi-autos these days are really very reliable, as long as you take care of them in some way. You can't leave them in a drawer for ages like a revolver.
If he likes the bersa, but wants a brand. But the CZ in his hand and let the magic happen.
If he likes the bersa, but wants a brand. But the CZ in his hand and let the magic happen.
One of the few unfortunate specimen then, Bersa CS will fix it for you....a quick Internet search will reveal how reliable and well built these guns are with very satisfied customers, just the finishing is a bit utilitarian (more in the past than now)......it's like bad mouthing Glock because of the Kabooms....
And they are not longer cheap by the way, their full size line is priced a breathing distance from comparable CZ pistols nowadays....
Magazine are pricey it's true but they are also well built....metal followers insted of plastic for example, at least for their full size Thunder line.
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ole farmerbuck
Member
I have 2 Bersa 380's identical. I'd take them over a Glock anyday. Very very accurate and just as reliable.
Deaf Smith
Member
Well while the Bersa may be used in Latin America, Glock is used throughout the world.
Australian Royal Air Force, Austrian Armed Forces, Finland Defense Forces, French Army, French Navy, Georgia Special Forces, Latvian military, Lebanese Army, Lithuanian Armed Forces, Malaysian Armed Forces, Military of Montenegro, Military of the Netherlands, Royal Norwegian Army, Polish Military, Portuguese Marine Corps and Republican National Guard, Swedish Armed Forces.
Even some U.S. forces use Glocks (mostly as personal choice.)
And of course a huge percentage of the local, state, and federal police in the U.S. use Glocks.
Longer more detailed list of military and police use of Glocks here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock
Like I said, combat tested since 1980 (and that is now over 30 years!)
Deaf
Nobody dispute they are accurate and reliable...but they are also very cheap to purchase for military forces and police agency which expain a lot of the success
Read the book "Glock: The Rise of America's Gun" by Paul M. Barrett, a very well articulated and deep look at Glock success....simple mechanics, very good reliability and accuracy but also very shrewd marketing, very heavy advertisement and product promotion (very insightful the part about conquering Hollywood) and extremely aggressive government clients pricing and buyback policies...particularly interesting the section which describe the huge difference in prices between what a civilian pay for a Glock and what police departments pay for them...in the civilian market, pricing them too low may have created the perception that they were not good quality guns turning off some potential buyers. (When a lower price reduce the "desireability effects).
http://www.amazon.com/Glock-America...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382079760&sr=1-1
Compare that with an almost family shop (considering the size) like Bersa which does not spend a penny in advertisement and does not have a fraction of the commercial resources to do what Glock did to promote their products.
Take the G-22 & the Bersa to the range & give 'em the crap ammo test; get a couple boxes of .40 Tulammo, and .40 Win Whitebox, and then see which one groups the target better, and doesn't choke on this crap ammo! Guess which one I put my wallet money on!
DanTheFarmer
Member
JDR,
I can't guess which one you'd choose. That's the point. Both are good pistols and are likely to function well.
I've got several Bersas (380's, 9mm's, and 45 ACP's) that are very reliable. I don't have any experience with Glocks but I can't imagine they'd have the loyal following that they do if they were unreliable.
Bersas fit my hands better than the Glocks I've handled in gun stores. Plus I like an external safety so Bersas work well for me. Others may have different experiences and preferences and we all get to vote with our dollars.
Dan
I can't guess which one you'd choose. That's the point. Both are good pistols and are likely to function well.
I've got several Bersas (380's, 9mm's, and 45 ACP's) that are very reliable. I don't have any experience with Glocks but I can't imagine they'd have the loyal following that they do if they were unreliable.
Bersas fit my hands better than the Glocks I've handled in gun stores. Plus I like an external safety so Bersas work well for me. Others may have different experiences and preferences and we all get to vote with our dollars.
Dan
Excellent marketing and rap music?Do you think there just might be a reason that Glocks are so popular?
I'm O.K. with the Bersa in 9mm, but I don't like it in .40. You don't own it it .40. The .40 is a different animal than the calibers you have. In My Humble Opinion, I can manage the snappy recoil of most of the .40 S&W caliber factory ammo that is out there, with my Glock 22 than I can with most other 40's including the Bersa. BTW, I have a Sig P226-40 and an H&K USP 40 to compare to the G-22.
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dwhite
Member
Need to tell him he's done shooting yours. If he wants to shoot something, he needs to get something .
All the Best,
D. White
All the Best,
D. White
Please don't go their with the 9 vs 40 debate.Theres already enough threads on this to last a lifetime.You like your 40 and like my 9.See, that wasn't so bad now was it?
David E
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If Bersas (Bersi?) cost almost as much as other top brands, but have pricey, hard to find parts, what exactly are you gaining?
Marketing or not, if Glocks didn't work, then no amount of "shrewd marketing" could change that. But they do work under all kinds of hostile conditions, so the hype isn't really hype after all.
If your friend wants a good value, then he should consider Ruger and the S&W economy line.
Marketing or not, if Glocks didn't work, then no amount of "shrewd marketing" could change that. But they do work under all kinds of hostile conditions, so the hype isn't really hype after all.
If your friend wants a good value, then he should consider Ruger and the S&W economy line.
Deaf Smith
Member
Well I would agree with you except Chuck Taylor got many a service gun and then sent them to the bottom of San Diego harbor for a few months, Alaska deep freeze for months, deserts for months. He bake, broiled, roasted, froze, buried, etc.. them all and found only a few would work 'every time' (to paraphrase Tommy Lee Jones.)
1911s, Glocks, and S&W N frame 27s passed the test. All others didn't.
And the Glock, in the sea test, didn't even rust except the little stainless pin and spring right behind the extractor.
He also has a 1st gen Glock with over 175,000 rounds.
Deaf
wow6599
Member
Was he hoping to prove that grandma's cooking would hurt a firearm? That's the stupidest test I've heard of.
Roasted a pistol......
I do not think Bersa parts are generally particularly expensive (yes magazines are a bit pricey but, as I said, they are well built)...maybe a bit harder to find than more popular pistols.
They still have a bit of a cost advantage compared to other quality full metal pistol SA/DA pistols.
Much better trigger for example than Ruger semi, S&W cheap line or Taurus.
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I never disputed their reliability...after all this is pretty much the major Glock selling point...however these extreme unrelistic tests does not diqualify other quality firearms from been considered extremely reliable under all expected realistic conditions....
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Oh good grief. All this angst over a Glock -vs.- ??? thread?
Have him shoot both -- preferably with you not even there -- and then pick one, buy it, and then put 5-10,000 rounds through it.
Then have him get back in touch and tell you what he decided and how happy he is with his choice.
Your enthusiasm for one gun over the other is REALLY not helping him reach success as a shooter, it's getting in his way.
Step back, get your own ego/preferences out of his business, and let him make the best decision for HIM.
Have him shoot both -- preferably with you not even there -- and then pick one, buy it, and then put 5-10,000 rounds through it.
Then have him get back in touch and tell you what he decided and how happy he is with his choice.
Your enthusiasm for one gun over the other is REALLY not helping him reach success as a shooter, it's getting in his way.
Step back, get your own ego/preferences out of his business, and let him make the best decision for HIM.
Sam
I only suggested to him to opt for a DA/SA design which I think is better for a newbie...and which himself tend to prefer anyway (as a type of action) this weekend he's trying a CZ-75
I suggested to him a CZ, a SIG and others other than my Bersa.....he loves my Berettas too but they are too big for him.
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