dstorm1911
Member
triplet........ really hate THR lag time for posting!!
Glock .40sw - unsupported chamber problem fix?
- Thread starter judaspriest
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dstorm1911
Member
ditto above.........this is FING ridicules and yea I've got high speed!!!!!!!!!!! only THR has this issue for me..........
dstorm1911
Member
Okeyo thats an unsupported chamber, notice how the case web is exposed? I don't have a camera that actually works worth cr@p for macro shots anymore so....... someone else will have to show ya what a non-jerry-rigged-to-get-it-to-feed chamber looks like from an aftermarket barrel or an XD or a Springeild 1911 in .40 etc...
Sir Aardvark
Member
For what its worth, I was issued a new Glock 22 in Dec 1999. Since then I have shot thousands upon thousands of rounds of factory ammunition of nearly every brand - no problems. My PD has just over 200 sworn and has issued 22's since 1998. We have not seen a single kaboom.
The Indiana State Police and Haddon Heights, NJ PD are just two of the law enforcement agencies that have returned ALL their Glocks to the manufacturer.
This was due to numerous failures to eject and stovepipes that Glock factory reps were unable to rectify. It's important to note that these problems occurred repeatedly, even though both agencies were using major brand factory ammo:
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hhnj.html
wally
Member
Few if any autoloaders have fully supported chambers. Its the degree of unsupport that seems to get the .40S&W Glock in trouble.
The design is fine with virgin brass of industry standard quality. The problem is if the brass takes a second trip thru a Glock .40 and the unsupported area happens to line up again, then with a hot load case failure becomes a significant possibility.
Add to it the alleged propensity of Glocks to fire when slightly out of battery and I choose to skip all Glocks in .40S&W. YMMV. This is easy for me as Glocks don't fit me well, but after handling the new 21SF I would buy a Glock 20SF if they made one.
At the price of a Glock .40 + a third party barrel there is a rather long list of guns I'd rather have.
--wally.
The design is fine with virgin brass of industry standard quality. The problem is if the brass takes a second trip thru a Glock .40 and the unsupported area happens to line up again, then with a hot load case failure becomes a significant possibility.
Add to it the alleged propensity of Glocks to fire when slightly out of battery and I choose to skip all Glocks in .40S&W. YMMV. This is easy for me as Glocks don't fit me well, but after handling the new 21SF I would buy a Glock 20SF if they made one.
At the price of a Glock .40 + a third party barrel there is a rather long list of guns I'd rather have.
--wally.
easyg
Member
I put over a 1000 rounds through both my Glock G22 and my CZ 75B .40 SA and neither one of them have had any problems whatsoever.
And the Glock's chamber has just as much support as the CZ's chamber....
Maybe Glock had a problem with lack of support in the .40's in the previous generation of pistols, but the generation 3 pistols are just fine.
I have checked my empty brass at the range many times and I've never found a bulged one.
Easy
And the Glock's chamber has just as much support as the CZ's chamber....
Maybe Glock had a problem with lack of support in the .40's in the previous generation of pistols, but the generation 3 pistols are just fine.
I have checked my empty brass at the range many times and I've never found a bulged one.
Easy
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
None of those photos show the actual unsupported area that causes the problem.
Photo #1 comes close, but not quite.
It is where the section of chamber is cut away by the feed ramp where the case is unsupported on the Glock barrel.
A photo of the Glock & CZ barrels taken from directly up the feed ramp would clearly show the differance.
rcmodel
Photo #1 comes close, but not quite.
It is where the section of chamber is cut away by the feed ramp where the case is unsupported on the Glock barrel.
A photo of the Glock & CZ barrels taken from directly up the feed ramp would clearly show the differance.
rcmodel
easyg
Member
Well, perhaps my photography skills are lacking, but I'm sitting here looking at both barrels, and I can honestly say that there is virtually no difference in the support at the feed ramp.
As I said before, at one time Glock might have had less support, but not with my generation 3 G22.
And I've never had a single bulged casing either.
It's just not an issue.
wally
Member
easyg,
You are not correctly interpreting what your most excellent photos show between the Glock and CZ chambers.
Note how far the Glock feed ramp cuts into the chamber area compared to the CZ. This is the root of the problem and where a case bulges with hot factory loads.
Lots of LE shoot .40S&W Glocks at our range and don't pick up the empties. I scrounge it and reload it, but not for hot loads and not for shooting in Glocks. The square firing pin indentation clearly shows they were fired in a Glock and the bulges are easy to see if you look.
rc model is correct in stating that your photos do not prominently show the area in question, but they do show it if you know what to look for.
--wally.
You are not correctly interpreting what your most excellent photos show between the Glock and CZ chambers.
Note how far the Glock feed ramp cuts into the chamber area compared to the CZ. This is the root of the problem and where a case bulges with hot factory loads.
Lots of LE shoot .40S&W Glocks at our range and don't pick up the empties. I scrounge it and reload it, but not for hot loads and not for shooting in Glocks. The square firing pin indentation clearly shows they were fired in a Glock and the bulges are easy to see if you look.
rc model is correct in stating that your photos do not prominently show the area in question, but they do show it if you know what to look for.
--wally.
easyg
Member
I think that you're seeing something that's simply not there.
There's virtually no difference between the two at the feed ramp.
Maybe I should have used the flash...
I believe the newer 40 caliber Glocks have more case support than the older 40 caliber Glocks and the newer 40 caliber Glocks have more case support than the 9mm, 10mm, or 45 ACP Glocks.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=813538&page=9
See page 9 post # 202.
.
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=813538&page=9
See page 9 post # 202.
.
jakemccoy
Member
I shoot plenty hot Double Tap 155g .40 cal from my Glock 27 on a regular basis. It's still accurate as ever. I have no idea what the big concern is (other than the reload issue, which is irrelevant to me). This thread reads like a perpetuated urban legend mixed in with some imagination and unsound theory.
Oh give me a break with all this "supported chamber" stuff. Click the link on the first page and check out all those barrels on all those different brands of handguns. Can you honestly tell me that one of those designs is more prone to blowing up than the one next to it? It looks like the thinnest part of the chamber wall is the sides anyways. How does added metal to the top or bottom of the chamber decrease the chances of the sides collapsing under too much pressure?
Just seems like a big internet-created thing created to scare people away from Glocks. I mean think about it. How many hundreds of thousands of Glock 23s and 22s are there out there, and for how long? 15+ years? Metal fatigues with extended use and abuse over time. It can happen to any handgun with a high-pressure cartridge like the .40S&W.
Please, for your own sake don't let the idea of a Glock chamber blowing up stop you from getting one if you REALLY do like them. It would be dumb to avoid Glocks for this reason only.
Just seems like a big internet-created thing created to scare people away from Glocks. I mean think about it. How many hundreds of thousands of Glock 23s and 22s are there out there, and for how long? 15+ years? Metal fatigues with extended use and abuse over time. It can happen to any handgun with a high-pressure cartridge like the .40S&W.
Please, for your own sake don't let the idea of a Glock chamber blowing up stop you from getting one if you REALLY do like them. It would be dumb to avoid Glocks for this reason only.
Clark,
perhaps OT, perhaps actually germane to the topic, but can you tell us what you are doing to get all that data? Is this a business or a very big hobby? What kind of equipment are you using? Seems to me that you are the only one in this discussion who has actually *measured* anything, so it would be helpful to know.
perhaps OT, perhaps actually germane to the topic, but can you tell us what you are doing to get all that data? Is this a business or a very big hobby? What kind of equipment are you using? Seems to me that you are the only one in this discussion who has actually *measured* anything, so it would be helpful to know.
Clark
Member
Thanks for the kind words.
Guns are a hobby for me.
My father a great gun designer, they called him Chief Engineer for 40 years and he had a huge office.
I am just an ordinary consulting engineer in a cubicle by day, designing electronics.
My vertical mill for gunsmithing has been getting used for building test fixtures for my day job.
My father says my blowing guns up is pointless, but he backed off a little when I showed him the data.
Yesterday, my son, the software engineer intern, said the stress analysis on the rockchucker press I broke was off the wall. I showed him the assumptions and calculations, and he backed off a little.
I got an email yesterday from a guy with "a universal receiver and
piezo transducer equipment" who says that my measuring extractor grooves for growth to find the threshold of trouble can vary by thousands of psi.
I have strain gauges and I made an instrument amplifier, but the placement of the gauge and the complexity of barrel shape makes them inaccurate.
I think part of what I am doing with data and guns is to try to interact with them more as an engineer and less as a consumer.
Guns are a hobby for me.
My father a great gun designer, they called him Chief Engineer for 40 years and he had a huge office.
I am just an ordinary consulting engineer in a cubicle by day, designing electronics.
My vertical mill for gunsmithing has been getting used for building test fixtures for my day job.
My father says my blowing guns up is pointless, but he backed off a little when I showed him the data.
Yesterday, my son, the software engineer intern, said the stress analysis on the rockchucker press I broke was off the wall. I showed him the assumptions and calculations, and he backed off a little.
I got an email yesterday from a guy with "a universal receiver and
piezo transducer equipment" who says that my measuring extractor grooves for growth to find the threshold of trouble can vary by thousands of psi.
I have strain gauges and I made an instrument amplifier, but the placement of the gauge and the complexity of barrel shape makes them inaccurate.
I think part of what I am doing with data and guns is to try to interact with them more as an engineer and less as a consumer.
Haycreek
Member
Glock unsupported chamber
I have had two Glock kabooms that completly blew the case head off. Glock said that it was "bad" factory ammo, and it may have contributed to the problem--but-- Glock's 40 S&W chamber is 5/1000 over sammi size, and it is unsupported at six oclock. I solved the problem--- I bought an XD 40, which IS a sammi spec sized chamber and IS fully supported. No more problems. {after a Glock blows up in you hand, I must say that it messes with your sight picture} PS I still have a G 17 and a G 37. I'm not against all Glocks.
I have had two Glock kabooms that completly blew the case head off. Glock said that it was "bad" factory ammo, and it may have contributed to the problem--but-- Glock's 40 S&W chamber is 5/1000 over sammi size, and it is unsupported at six oclock. I solved the problem--- I bought an XD 40, which IS a sammi spec sized chamber and IS fully supported. No more problems. {after a Glock blows up in you hand, I must say that it messes with your sight picture} PS I still have a G 17 and a G 37. I'm not against all Glocks.
Wesson Smith
Member
OK, I have a couple of questions and an admission that are all probably gonna get me flamed, but here goes.
First off, is there any general rule of thumb regarding what to do with a round that has been cycled, and then subsequently cleared from a semi-auto weapon? I know this thread has chiefly discussed the .40 S&W, but what about .45 ACP or 9MM +P rounds? Is repeated clearing/cycling of this (factory loaded) ammunition a concern? As for my admission, I will fess up that I have been guilty in the past of clearing a round from my weapon, and eventually re-inserting it into a backup magazine for that same weapon. I've never, ever had a KB, but all this talk has got me a little spooked! Can ya'll help out your (confused) fellow THR member? Thanks, much!Riss
Member
Repeated cycling has shown to be a cause of case ruptures in Glocks. The repeated hammering against the feed ramp can cause the bullet to set back. Setting back the bullet can cause the pressure, which is already twice what a 45 acp is at to quickly go through the roof. This will cause the case to rupture. usually at the 6 oclock position. Almost all KB's in Glocks have been attributed to reloads in which a double charge of powder was loaded. The results will result in the slide popping off of the frame and the top portion of the chamber most likely going into orbit. The "problem" with the unsupported case in the 40 S&W Glock is caused by Gaston Glock modding the 9mm gun to a 40 . The only logical place to make up for the extra vartridge length was to take the needed room away from the feed ramp area. Which in turn unsupported the case a little bit. This in conjunction with the case, originally designed for the 10mm, which shot heavier bullets, have to be thinned out internally to load 180 br bullets into the shorter 40 S&W case. The only place to remove the material to put in the big bullets was at the rear, in the web, which in the Glock 40 cal is now unsupported. High pressure case, partially unsupported chamber, thin case web = blown cases
MarcusWendt
Member
Based on all the posts, pictures, articles I've read it seems like the Glock is safe in just about everything other than .40 S&W.
Riss
Member
That is right. Since the 40 S&W is higher in pressure there is less wiggle room for error when reloading. 9mm is also sensitive to pressure also, but since the 40 is also unsupported that makes it much more important to be aware of your pressures. Especially when reloading.
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