Glock collecting customers info

[bullzeye8]

I got an email from a gunshop a little over an hour a way from me about how they are no longer in the Glock Blue Label Program because Glock representatives came and demanded to see the 4473's from blue label customers. Here is the email-

Trop Gun Shop regrets to inform our customers that we will no longer be participating in the Glock Blue Label program. Effective immediately, Glock terminated us from the program for refusing to furnish access to our customers’ private information for the purposes of auditing by Glock employees. While it is regrettable that we will no longer be able to offer the benefits of the Blue Label program here at Trop, we absolutely refuse to compromise the sensitive information of our customers by furnishing it to anyone without proper authority through standard legal practices.

To participate in the Glock Blue Label program a dealer must allow Glock access to audit “qualifying credentials” of its Blue Label customers. Typically these credentials are a form of identification verifying the individual is a member of one of the groups listed in the Blue Label program.

Recently a representative of Glock entered our establishment and demanded access to view our records related to all Blue Label sales, specifically our ATF Form 4473s, which contain very detailed, personal and identifying information of our customers. We refused the Glock representative access to this information.

During repeated correspondence Glock continued to demand access to the 4473s or we would be terminated from the Blue Label program. We attempted to reconcile the situation while maintaining our customers’ privacy and made every effort to comply with reasonable requests to audit the Blue Label sales to maintain the integrity of the program. However, Glock insisted that access to the 4473s and only access to the 4473s would be a sufficient level of compliance.

Our position was, and continues to be, that we will not surrender to Glock our Form 4473s and our customers’ identifying information under any circumstance. It is an untenable breach of our customers’ privacy and Trop Gun Shop will not submit to this unreasonable demand. As a result of our position, Glock immediately terminated our status as an authorized participant of the Blue Label program. Furthermore, Glock advised us that if we ever applied in the future, that request would be denied. While we are displeased that we can no longer support our qualifying customers through the Blue Label program, Trop Gun Shop remains committed to the security and privacy of all of our customers, and continues to offer its Law Enforcement / Military discount to those who qualify.

Regards,

Trop Gun Shop

Anybody hear of Glock doing this before?

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I don't know but seems like a horrible over reach on glocks part.

 

[Olympus]

I can understand Glock wanting to ensure a dealer isn't giving the Blue discount to every Joe Blow that walks in the door, but by demanding only the 4473, that doesn't seem reasonable. If I were the shop, I'd drop the Glock brand completely. If Glock gets enough bad press from this, maybe they will rethink their approach.

 

[bannockburn]

Seems extremely unreasonable and intrusive of Glock to make such demands on a dealer. There must be a better way of maintaining the Blue Label program without having to turn over information from the 4473 form.

 

[stoky]

you VILL turn over ze infromation

 

[X-Rap]

To participate in the Glock Blue Label program a dealer must allow Glock access to audit “qualifying credentials” of its Blue Label customers. Typically these credentials are a form of identification verifying the individual is a member of one of the groups listed in the Blue Label program.

Looks like their policy was know at the time of entering the program, if you are going to offer special pricing to a select group there has to be a way of verification.

 

[Rule3]

According to GLOCK, all that they "need" is a proof of being eligible like a LEO badge or whatever. Kinda like what BUDS used to have or still does in a different name.

Gee you can buy 2 a year and get some little discount

http://us.glock.com/bluelabel

 

[rbernie]

I asked my favorite local dealer if the Blue Label program used the 4473 to validate the LE credentials in some way. His reply:

We have to take a copy of the military/LE id and report the model/serial number to get another glock LE gun. Doesn't go in the 4473 it goes in it's own seperate file.

 

[jmr40]

The 4473 is the only document proving WHO purchased a gun. And the only way Glock can prove that qualified buyers got the discount. Nothing new or intrusive about this. Personal information is used and passed around to lots of people. I'd actually have more confidence that a Glock auditor would not abuse my information than most gun shop employees who can see the same info.

I'm sorta wondering if there isn't more to the story here. Makes one wonder if the gunshop in question may have been selling discounted guns to individuals who didn't qualify and is hiding behind this as a way to avoid be audited.

 

[fastbolt]

Want to see the gun companies stop offering discounted sales programs for active/retired public safety, military, armorers, etc?

Just stop letting them confirm the participating dealers and stores are actually conforming to the program requirements.

 

[ugaarguy]

Per TTAG, Glock says they do not record any customer info but they do cross reference credentials to 4473s to ensure that the credentialed person is the actual buyer. I find Glock's side of the story, as reported by TTAG, to be more believable, but read the article and decide for yourselves -http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/robert-farago/glock-we-dont-record-4473-info-but/

 

[jmr40]

Your link didn't work

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/robert-farago/glock-we-dont-record-4473-info-but/

Good read. I agree, Glock is in the right here. I've participated in gun rebates in the past and they have required a copy of the 4473 in order to confirm I was the actual purchaser. I see no difference here.

Glock just trusts the stores to comply, sounds like Trop was not.

A quote from the link

My guess? GLOCK’s caught wind of non-eligible buyers taking advantage of their Blue Label program. How big can that problem be? Participants in the program are restricted to two firearm purchases per year. Watch this space.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Both sides.....

Both sides of this dispute have valid points IMO.
The shop/FFL holder has valid and understandable concerns for the privacy/security of the Glock customers.
Glock USA and the Blue Label section have a valid & understandable point to audit records or verify that sworn LE officers or Blue Label customers can purchase Glock handguns at the authorized discount.

If I were Glock USA, I'd send notices out to all the US FFL holders/mgmt or Blue Label members saying this is what we(Glock Blue Label) require or need.
If the gun shop or staff dislike or refuse to comply then, no more Glock Blue Label.

ID theft and fraud/financial security are important issues. My state recently had a major scandal where a state employee sold personal data & records about approx 200,000 state residents to a unauthorized third party, .
The employee was caught and now the state agency has to spend $$$ to correct the criminal activity.
In 2014, I got 2 emails from a VA; www.VA.gov employee who by mistake sent a mass email to 100s of veterans.
The VA medical center corrected the error but it shows how personal data/information can be misused or lost quickly, .

I'd add that in my area, about 80% of the gun shops/FFL holders(staff and mgmt) had little or no clue about any LE or first responder discounts.
They either act ignorant or claim they don't use the special offers.

Rusty

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'm not seeing much of an issue here except for possibly some with how the gun shop does business.

When they signed up for the program, you'd think that they understood that they were subject to being audited. If they didn't want to be audited, they shouldn't have signed up for the program.

There is no way to verify if the purchaser of a Glock under the Blue Label Program qualified, except to compare information of the the photocopied credentials and that on the 4473.

At the worst, the store is selling Glocks in violation of their agreement (fraud) and at best they have no understanding of their agreement (incompetence)

 

[RustyShackelford]

True dat! .....

Post #14 pretty much sums it up, .
If a FFL holder or the shop staff refuse to follow the company(Glock) SOPs or agreement then they shouldn't offer the Blue Label program to any customers.

Rusty

 

[jakk280rem]

First, good on the gun shop for sticking up for customers. Seems like Glock could clear this up with a simple form, featuring limited personal info, that a dealer would fill out at time of sale. Seems like name, rank, and the name and contact details of the credential issuing agency.

 

[9mmepiphany]

... that a dealer would fill out at time of sale. Seems like name, rank, and the name and contact details of the credential issuing agency.

You're missing the point

Glock isn't trying to verify that the shop has customers who qualify, they are trying to verify that the Glocks were sold to qualifying customers. The only way to do this is to match the name on the photocopied credential with the name on the 4473 that was processed.

Glock shouldn't have to contact the agency and the purchasing officer to verify that they bought the gun in question. That is why they make it a provision for the requesting FFL to participate in the program. If the FFL didn't want to be subject to an audit by Glock, they shouldn't have requested to be part of the program

 

[jmr40]

Some excerpts from the earlier link.

the audits are part of the agreement for participating in the Blue Label program.

The gunshop knew this was a requirement to be able to participate. If they weren't willing to play by the rules they shouldn't have participated

When I asked Radecki if Trop Shop had been terminated from the program for non-compliance – giving discounts to customers who weren’t members of the military, law enforcement officers, etc. – he demurred.

“Trop Shop wasn’t following the program guidelines. That’s all I’m going to say about that.”

Not only were they not following guidelines, there may have been laws broken. The gun store is an agent working for Glock. If they sold guns at a discounted price to unqualified people they were in effect stealing from Glock.

I think they made a huge mistake by posting their response on-line. They could have quietly let the right to sell under this program end without bringing a lot of attention to possible wrong doings. But this is like poking a stick into the eye of a sleeping bear. They now may have gotten the attention of a DA who could investigate possible criminal activity.

 

[george burns]

Funny that issue was raised, because I know of at least 2 people who aren't qualified for the program, but got someone to get them the pistol other than themselves. One is a doctor. I think that a lot of folks take advantage of the program, and Glock probably decided to wake up and clamp down.

 

[Thompsoncustom]

I think the biggest problem is glock says that's why there doing with the info but the NSA says that they were only spying on overseas threats and we all know how that worked out.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I think the biggest problem is glock says that's why there doing with the info

If you think that, then don't register for the program. Don't lie about your willingness to take part, refused when asked to keep up your part of the agreement, and then whine when they drop you from the program.

It's like folks who joined the military and then complained when they were deployed...saying they didn't really think they'd have to really do any fighting

 

[Snyper]

The 4473 is the only document proving WHO purchased a gun. And the only way Glock can prove that qualified buyers got the discount.

It's amazing how few people seem to understand that simple concept.

They go off on rants about "privacy invasions" without ever once stopping to think

 

[jamesinalaska]

I am a Glock fan. But since the marketing of of the 4th generation pistols, and now this report, my appreciation for Glock has been rapidly declining. When a company is no longer into the innovation and quality aspects of business but moves instead into the marketing and protect-our-market-share game, the products become second rate. . . or third . . . or fourth. Just look at Smith and Wesson.

Kel-Tec, by the way, is an incredibly innovative company; so is Ruger.

 

[RustyShackelford]

SIG Sauer, TSA....

SIG Sauer and the TSA had a recent scandal where reportedly, a senior TSA agent(SES grade) was re-selling SIG pistols he obtained at the authorized LE discount, .
Several TSA/DHS agents and supervisors got caught up in that mess.
It sounds like Glock USA said; hey guys, let's audit our own records or SOPs to avoid any bad PR or BS like that.

Like I posted before, both sides have valid points. Personally I lean more towards the Glock USA side. If they didn't audit or verify sales-records there could be a lot of fraud/abuse/mistakes.

And for those forum members or shooting sports industry workers who say; hey, so what or why is that important, I say research the Red Jacket Firearms company & that mess.

 

[Handloader109]

Not a LEO, nor Glock fan, but I do own a G17, This type of program will generate a LOT of abuse. If Glock is paying out more than they expect or want to, I would move to a rebate program. Yes more expensive to manage, and yes the buyer would have to pay full load and Apply after the fact. But if you want the rebate you would do it. This would eliminate the buying by proxy that is happening.