Glock Kaboomed Next to Me Today...

[christcorp]

Every manufacturer will say that they advise against reloads. Duh, that's liability at it's finest. But any gun that has a problem shooting reloads, I don't want anything to do with. Yes, any gun and any caliber can have issues with any ammo; especially reloads. But it sure seems that the glocks get a lot of attention when it comes to having pieces of the gun blow apart.

I personally have never liked glocks, but it has nothing to do with their reliability or blowing up. Generally, they are a very reliable gun. My problem with glocks are ergonomic. They feel like crap and I hate the trigger. And anyone that says anything about doing a trigger job, automatically turns me off of the gun. A gun shouldn't have to have "After-Market" work done on it. Out of the box, it should should as intended and comfortably; break-in time taken into consideration. After-market options is for tweaking. For basic shooting, I hate the feel of a glock and it's trigger.

But again, it sure seems coincidental how often when a gun; especially a plastic gun goes kaboom; it's a glock.

 

[Ratdog68]

"You want to shoot a glock with reloads it's as simple as reduce your loads or buy an aftermarket barrel or better yet do both. Better safe than sorry."

Not bad advice.

I can't understand why anyone would go above the book numbers reloading. Want more power? Buy a more powerful caliber.

Well... yes/no. Compare today's reloading books with those of years gone by. What do you find for content? You have legal departments mandating that down graded loads be listed as the new upper limits. With some calibers, exceeding today's "max" loads aren't the "max" loads of days gone by. Is it "always" "unsafe" to exceed today's "max" listing? That would depend upon a few variables... make/model of gun, caliber, quality of brass, condition of brass, etc. As it applies to the .40 (and in particular to the Glock)? Probably NOT a good idea.

Personally... combat tupperware has never interested me.

 

[Maj Dad]

Operator/Reloader Error?

I usually think first of double/over-charges in these cases. I was shooting a Jimmy Clark Colt 1911 38 spl in a CF pistol match in the late 70's, using a friend's reloads (148 gr wc over 2.7 gr BE) and got a loud bang & numb hand. After changing my shorts, I turned the pistol sideways & looked at my hand, expecting bloody shreds, but all I got was a blown out grip panel on the left side. The sharp checkering added to the sensation of numbness, but no other damage to me or the gun. The cartridge case itself was a classic DC with the blowout at the web where the bbl did not support it. Nothing about the pistol contributed save the unsupported area, but all autos have some, no matter how small (maybe some custom/ramped bbls excepted). The Glock is no different, and hot reloads in a bbl with unsupported areas is a recipe for blow ups. Damn the pistol, damn the rifling and whatever else, but the root cause is damned inattention/poor judgement (or lack thereof)...
My 2 cents

 

[Roswell_Kid]

You may have a point Ratdog. I was not aware that the manuals had been dummied down - it´s been 20+ years since I have done any reloading alas.

In the 70s and 80s, you either made dmmm sure you had very good scales and approached those printed limits with caution, or you did not care about hands, eyes, friends, etc.

 

[Aceoky]

Well... yes/no. Compare today's reloading books with those of years gone by. What do you find for content? You have legal departments mandating that down graded loads be listed as the new upper limits. With some calibers, exceeding today's "max" loads aren't the "max" loads of days gone by

One must take into account the testing on rounds now compared to "yesteryear" is FAR more precise and accurate; what they "thought" was safe was almost always over pressure, they just didn't know it then. There is much evidence abounding on this, when you're talking life/limbs/bystanders it's best IMO to err on the side of caution...

 

[jollyroger]

Glocks use polygonal rifling, not cut rifling with lands and grooves. This has some advantages, like a better seal between bullet and barrel with resulting slightly increased velocity. The problem with lead bullets is that they lead an already tight bore over time. If a bullet gets stuck in the bore as a result, pressures skyrocket and you get a kb. Its only when you already have soaring pressures that case head support matters, it's not the cause of a kb.

The replacement barrels with which you can shoot lead ammo have cut rifling, so leading is less of a problem.

Even so, this guy's gun could have blown up from a number of things: barrel obstruction (such as a squib) followed by a live round, or a double charge in a reloaded cartridge that are a lot more likely than a manufacturing defect.

My agency issues Glocks and we fire an average of about 1K rounds per year (4 shoots) per weapon - all factory ammo. I'm not big on plastic guns and they do have problems like any other weapon, but the design is sound: you just have to understand what you're dealing with.

 

[WardenWolf]

The Glock .40 has always been a particularly problematic combination. The .40 round is high pressure, and the .40 bullet is particularly prone to being pushed back in its casing during loading. All it takes is the same round being chambered a couple of times to potentially dangerously raise the pressure. This, coupled with the Glock's poorly supported chamber, makes blowouts unusually common. Because of these design issues with the round, I would be hesitant to purchase any pistol chambered in .40, opting instead for .45 or 9mm. Combine that with the Glock's Achilles' heel, and there is no way I would purchase a Glock in .40.

If you DO reload for a Glock .40, you're putting yourself at significantly increased risk. The unsupported chamber leads to additional stretching and deformation in that area, meaning the case can become structurally compromised despite otherwise appearing perfectly sound. Effectively, the Glock .40 is an extremely dangrous gun to reload for because the gun damages the brass in a fashion that renders it unsafe for further use, regardless of whether you can visually detect any damage. The unsupported chamber, in addition to causing this focused wear, also increases the chance of a later blowout in this same stressed spot.

Knowing this, I wouldn't be so hasty to blame the guy's reloads, at least not directly. Chances are his reloads were perfectly fine, and likely wouldn't even have caused a problem in a normal gun. But coupled with the previous damage from firing in a Glock and the still-unsupported chamber, the cases failed prematurely. Who's to blame? The guy bears some responsibility for not knowing it was a bad idea to reload for this gun, but the ultimate culpability relies with Glock itself; they designed and marketed a gun that was particularly prone to this problem, and unusually dangerous to shoot reloads in, yet they did not do more than issue the standard warning that reloaded ammunition is not recommended. The design itself is flawed, just not in a fashion that often shows itself with factory ammo.

 

[klash545]

someone please post pics of USP kbs

 

[alienbogey]

To answer some questions:

• The shooter said they were 'reloads' before he was led away to be patched up, he did not specify whether they were private or commercial reloads. I didn't think to ask when he came back to gather up his gear.

• The finger grooves were on the Glock's grip and appeared factory to me.

• It looked like skateboard friction material had been applied as grip tape.

 

[DeepSouth]

After reading so many people (rightly) say this has nothing to do with the gun, and then defending it to death, with comments like how it could happen with any gun, which is also correct. I just can't help but wonder what would have happened if instead of plastic the frame would have been good cast or forged metal, somehow I bet we would be sitting here talking about lucky this guy was that he didn't even get a scratch and how bad it could have been.

For the record, I'm not a "Plastic Hater" I carry plastic everyday, so does my wife. I just think, make that know, in the event of a kaboom I'd rather have metal in my hand than plastic.

 

[Victor1Echo]

Oh this is great I just reloaded 100 .45 rounds for my glock 21. I never heard you couldn't reload for Glocks. At least my bullets are copper plated, and the .45 has a lower pressure than a .40. Maybe I need to buy another .45.

 

[KurtC]

1. There is difference between handloads and reloads.

2. Reloads are not recommended because many reloaders do not trim their brass to proper length, and this is the leading cause of cartridges not going fully into battery, or pressure spikes if they are forced into battery.

3. This may come as a surprise to many, but Glocks Kaboom with new factory ammo as well, and in just about every caliber (9mm may be the exception). The problem is that the design and manufacturing processes all contribute to allow certain pistols to fire out of battery.

a) This does not happen with all Glocks, only a few. The only constant I have noticed in the last 20 years is that Kabooms in glocks seem to occur with a relatively low round count. I have not heard of a KB in glocks that have made it past several thousand rounds.

b) There are many factors that cause a cartridge to not go into battery. Among them are excessive case length (reloads) and fouling buildup in the chamber throat (lead bullets).

c) Containment: Kabooms in most pistols rarely damage the gun, let alone the shooter. The main difference is that a KB in a regular pistol usually is caused by excessive pressure when the cartridge is fully in battery (excessive case length, not necessarily an overcharge of powder). Glock KB's occur with any charge, but the cartidge is out of battery and the blast comes rearward and downward, into the plastic frame and the shooter's hand. That fact that Glock chambers peel like a banana also leads me to believe that they are forged in the least expensive manner possible.

 

[wow6599]

I want to know why people always blame the .40 because "it's a high pressure round"?
.40S&W runs on average around 34,000 psi.......9x19 runs around that same number, maybe average around 32,000 psi.
It's not like we are talking about a the difference between a .45ACP (18,000 psi) and a 9 or 40. So, why no 9mm kabooms?

p.s. - I am not a fan of the .40 at all......sold my last one a couple of years ago. I do think it's an OK round, I just stick with my 9s and 45s (and 10mm).

 

[KurtC]

So, why no 9mm kabooms?

I'm convinced that orignal 9mm was a reasonably well designed pistol. Remember, the original goal was to create a serviceable pistol for the least amount of money (to win the Austrian military contract).

The KB issue didn't arise until the original design was modified for other cartridges.

1. Most Glocks can not/will not fire out-of-battery, and the shooter can use whatever half-assed lead reloads he can find.

2. Some Glocks can/will fire out-of-battery, and the shooter must take every precaution not to allow this to happen.

3. If you have a crystal ball that lets you know which is which, I'm sure Glock would pay handsomely for it.

 

[greyeyezz]

The Glock .40 has always been a particularly problematic combination. The .40 round is high pressure, and the .40 bullet is particularly prone to being pushed back in its casing during loading. All it takes is the same round being chambered a couple of times to potentially dangerously raise the pressure.

357sig is a much higher pressure round, and probably more prone to setback than the .40. I can't remember ever seeing a blown up G31,32 or 33.

 

[mesinge2]

357sig is a much higher pressure round

For the record, I am a 1911 fan and generally don't like plastic guns (though I finally broke down and bought an XDm-45).
So, I feel odd defending a tupperware gun.

However, this is a simple numbers game. Many, many fewer 357 sig guns have been sold than 40s.
If the .40 S&W is the most popular Glock chambering than it will have the most reports of a problem. I have seen more reports of 45 ACP 1911's having problems than 50 GI models. That is because only one company makes the 50 GI model and it is not that popular and everyone makes a 45 ACP model.

 

[Justin Holder]

If you use junk reloads, bad things happen.

Rifle or handgun, it makes little difference.

 

[KurtC]

357sig is a much higher pressure round, and probably more prone to setback than the .40. I can't remember ever seeing a blown up G31,32 or 33.

Simply put, I believe the bottleneck cartridge of the .357 is less likely to fire out-of-battery than straight wall cartridges.

Pressure alone doesn't cause Kabooms in Glocks. Nor does an unsupported chamber. However, they both make a glock kaboom more difficult to contain.

 

[bg226]

I wonder about case-wall thickness between the 9mm and .40 S&W.

 

[Strahley]

Another reason I don't mess with reloads

 

[ProCarryNAustin]

"357sig is a much higher pressure round, "

Way fewer G31, 32 and 33's out than and I would bet that a smaller percentage of those owners reload. I started my reloading with straight wall cartridges and it was some time before I got up the nerve to do my first bottleneck. Was not any harder, but was more intimidating for a beginning reloader's perspective.

 

[John Wayne]

There are fewer 9mm kabooms because the 9mm is less prone to bullet setback, and because 9mm guns were designed to shoot 9mm ammo, whereas with the .40, a lot of manufacturers bore a bigger hole in the barrel and put a stronger recoil spring in a gun that was originally built around the 9mm cartridge.

In some guns that are already overbuilt, chambering a .40 in a gun designed around 9mm doesn't really matter (think Ruger P series). If the manufacturers have already trimmed the gun down and it's as small/cheap/weak as possible to be safe with the 9mm and then you turn it into a .40 you may run into problems.

 

[LiveLife]

I have witnessed several KBs in the past 15 years at two indoor/outdoor ranges I volunteered/shot USPSA matches at. Most of the KBs were caused by the shooters who double-charged the case while reloading. Other times, the shooters did not know because the source of their ammunition was questionable/suspect - at least one or two bought their "shiny new looking" reloads at gun shows or got them from "somewhere".

I talked to range masters at both ranges and they confirmed that KBs pre-existed Glocks due mostly to suspected double charges. As far as we could all recall, none of the KBs witnessed were due to factory ammunition.

Not all of my witnessed KBs were Glocks.

FYI, I have noticed a distinct difference between Glock vs. Non-Glock KBs. Non-Glock KBs usually involved chamber/barrel splitting, causing explosion to occur outward (right side of the shooter) from the ejection port side of the pistol with case splitting.

Glock KBs I witnessed did not split the barrel, but bulged the base of the case (with opening of the case pointing towards the magazine) while blowing out the magazine catch and the magazine down the grip with some plastic parts scattered around the shooter.

None of the KBs resulted in serious injury - Usually sore wrist/numb hand/fingers with utterly shocked shooter in disbelief as to what just happened to them.

As to my Gen3 Glock barrels, the case base support is comparable to Lone Wolf barrels in 9mm and 40S&W, but the Glock chambers are looser.

 

[WardenWolf]

As stated before, the Glock chamber issue makes these guns particularly dangerous to reload for. The unsupported chamber makes them more prone to blowout, and also allows the brass to stretch more in this section. If the reloaded round is chambered such that this same previously stressed section is again left unsupported, you have a dramatically increased chance of blowout. I believe this is what happened here. He shot several rounds until he got one that chambered like it did before, and kaboom.

 

[weisse52]

I sometimes wonder after reading the comments on some of these postings if the author is reading the same post I did.

ALL guns go kaboom, I have seen lots of metal frame guns go up in smoke. Mostly revolvers, but auto's as well.

I am not know as a Glock lover, but to attempt to claim this is a design issue is really pushing an agenda, not facts.