Sistema1927
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Is that slide the right size for that frame? The overhang, front & rear, seems a bit extreme.
Going to build a 80% Glock
- Thread starter GunnyUSMC
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GunnyUSMC
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The rear of the frame has a beaver tail which makes it look longer. The front of the slide comes to the front edge of the frame, but the corners are angled. I’ll put a different slide on it tomorrow and take some pics.
Walt Sherrill
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I've done a lot of reading on this topic, but found no clear answers. Experts (folks like participants here who have done their own research, very digiligent in some cases, and very superficial in others) seem to not fully agree.
The BATF isn't specific about what is legal or illegal in all cases. Some of the requirements seem to apply to licensed manufacturers, but after working with federal regs over the years (both at work in the financial services industry and as an C&R 03 FFL licensee), I've found that a layman's interpretation of federal regulations can often be quite different than the BATF or a judge's interpretation.
I know that federal regulations do NOT require that a weapon made by an owner be serialized. The BATF does, in some of their documents, recommend that a serial number be applied. That said, it's less clear about whether that weapon, if not serialized, can later be sold, transferred, gifted, or passed on to a spouse or survivor. And if, in the case of a Glock, what do you do with the serialized frame of the gun the finished 80% frame has replaced? Or do you just put the Glock Serial # on the new frame and keep the old frame, etc., etc.
I suspect that law enforcement officers, should they ever find an owner with an unserialized weapon in his/her possession, may not be any more conversant with the controlling regulations (and details), than most of us -- and if so, that weapon will certainly be confiscated -- at least for a while.
What are you (those who are converting 80% firearms to fully functional weapons) doing to address these concerns?
The BATF isn't specific about what is legal or illegal in all cases. Some of the requirements seem to apply to licensed manufacturers, but after working with federal regs over the years (both at work in the financial services industry and as an C&R 03 FFL licensee), I've found that a layman's interpretation of federal regulations can often be quite different than the BATF or a judge's interpretation.
I know that federal regulations do NOT require that a weapon made by an owner be serialized. The BATF does, in some of their documents, recommend that a serial number be applied. That said, it's less clear about whether that weapon, if not serialized, can later be sold, transferred, gifted, or passed on to a spouse or survivor. And if, in the case of a Glock, what do you do with the serialized frame of the gun the finished 80% frame has replaced? Or do you just put the Glock Serial # on the new frame and keep the old frame, etc., etc.
I suspect that law enforcement officers, should they ever find an owner with an unserialized weapon in his/her possession, may not be any more conversant with the controlling regulations (and details), than most of us -- and if so, that weapon will certainly be confiscated -- at least for a while.
What are you (those who are converting 80% firearms to fully functional weapons) doing to address these concerns?
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GunnyUSMC
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You have some good questions, but they don't have much to do with building a P80 Glock lower, and would take this topic, off topic Your questions would be best if asked in a topic of it's own.
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GunnyUSMC
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I've put 25 rounds through the gun with no problems. I'm using KIC mag and the first 15 rounds fed a fired with no trouble and the cases all ejected great. The slide did not lock to the rear after the last shot, but that could be contributed to the low cost mag.
I then loaded 10 rounds in the mag and fired two into the recovery tank and then fired the other 8 into the target backstop. Everything worked great and the slide locked to the rear on the last shot.
Here are pics of the cartridge cases.
Typical Glock firing pin strike, but with a little less shearing.
The extractor catches good.
Here are the bullets from the recovery tank.
I then loaded 10 rounds in the mag and fired two into the recovery tank and then fired the other 8 into the target backstop. Everything worked great and the slide locked to the rear on the last shot.
Here are pics of the cartridge cases.
Typical Glock firing pin strike, but with a little less shearing.
The extractor catches good.
Here are the bullets from the recovery tank.
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Walt Sherrill
Member
I'd like a different grip on my two Glocks, but I'd like to know what regulatory or legal issues might affect me should I go down that path. The fact that at least ONE response mentioned the lack of a serial number as a justification for the change prompted my response and questions. I think those unanswered questions are at least as important as how easy it is to undertake the project. The process of completing the 80% frame itself doesn't sound all that complicated.
I'd definitely like to know how others have addressed this area of concern before I consider jumping into home gunmaking.
I'd definitely like to know how others have addressed this area of concern before I consider jumping into home gunmaking.
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GunnyUSMC
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In short. If you use the parts from your Glock 19 to build your P80, your Glock frame is still a gun even tho you have stripped it of parts.
I am a LEO and will tell you this. If a LEO confiscates your 80% firearm without probable cause, and you are not in violation of any laws, and just because it does not have a SN#, It would be a violation of your rights.
If your worried about the SN# thing Polymer 80 has released their new Serialized Stripped lowers
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-p...-prod115783.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=POLYMER80
bannockburn
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Gunny
Great job with the step-by-step photos of the progression of your 80% build! Thanks for the updates!
Great job with the step-by-step photos of the progression of your 80% build! Thanks for the updates!
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GunnyUSMC
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GunnyUSMC
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I just got back from the range. The red 6 and blue 3 were shot at 25 yards the rest were shot at 10 yards.
The gun really feels good in the hand. I like the flat trigger but need to shoot it more to get used to it. The slide did not lock back on the last round only once, but I still think it's the KCI mag. I forgot to bring a Glock mag. All in all I am very happy with the pistol.
The gun really feels good in the hand. I like the flat trigger but need to shoot it more to get used to it. The slide did not lock back on the last round only once, but I still think it's the KCI mag. I forgot to bring a Glock mag. All in all I am very happy with the pistol.
someguy2800
Member
I like it, might have to start collecting parts for one. How does the grip feel? I prefer the 1911 grip angle but the grip on the P80 looks like a rounded off brick.
Walt Sherrill
Member
GunnyUSMC said:
I agree with the statements above. But law-abiding citizens having their rights violated (or threatened) is not an unknown experience, nowadays, particularly when firearms are involved.
I will state the obvious -- that 80% frame, once work is done to make it functional, is no longer an 80% frame, but an unserialized firearm -- which can lead to questions or misinterpretations of the law, and problem. As noted, the BATF suggests serializing the weapon and keeping records.
If you are ever involved in the justified (i.e., legal) use of lethal force, a law enforcement agency will almost certainly confiscate the weapon used. In the few cases I know about, it takes quite a while for a serialized weapon to make it's way back to it's owner, and I suspect that the time involved will likely increase substantially if the weapon is unserialized.
A somewhat related point:
Here in NC you can transfer weapons between state residents without going through an FFL -- if the buying/receiving party has a Concealed Carry Permit or a Pistol Purchase Permit, and you've verified the transferees identity (using a good source like a photo ID (NC Driver's license, which has halographic images and isn't easily faked), etc. The General Statutes in NC do not say that the person selling or trading away a weapon must keep records of the transaction -- only that all involved in the transfer comply with the state law (which means that he or she must see/verify that the required documents exist) at the time of transfer, such as a Pistol Purchase Permit or CCP. (I keep copies, and if the other party doesn't want that done, we don't do the transfer.)
Some folks here in NC say "I don't have to keep records, because law doesn't require it." They are correct, as the General Statutes don't make tha a requirement. I would note, however, that some of these same folks generally view the government is the enemy. And if the weapon transferred is ever involved in a crime (by a person who shouldn't have gotten their hands on the weapon), somebody may ask questions about where it came from, and HOW it got there..
Why the same folks who often seem to view the government as the enemy might think that "enemy" is suddenly going to be their friend in a complex situation involving firearms, seems to be a question nobody wants to answer.
I've asked my questions, earlier, but I've still not seen an answer as to whether such a weapon can be gifted, sold, transferred, or otherwise disposed of, nor has anyone offered suggestions as to what might be the best way to handle the weapon (perhaps by serializing it yourself) if one wants to avoid "potential" (not "for sure") future problems.
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GunnyUSMC
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You see, your questions are good, but off topic. This topic is about building not selling or transferring.
If you start a new topic I am sure that you will get more then enough replies.
Walt Sherrill
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New topic created. We'll see if anybody has anything of substance on the topic of related legal issues.
rpenmanparker
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Gunny and others, sorry but I don't understand why the asssembly of an 80% Glock requires so much machining, drilling, fitting, etc. Why isn’t the 80% frame all ready to go with the Glock parts? Just insert and go. I thought interchangeable gun parts was one of the signature developments of the Industrial Revolution. Is the fitting work supposed to be part of the fun? Just wondering.
CapnMac
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It's "80%" not for being 0.8 of a firearm, but for being a frame which is only 80% completed.
It is not equivalent to a "stripped" (e.g. 100% finished) lower, where you isntall parts and go.
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GunnyUSMC
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The frame of an 80% has to meet Federal regulations.
The P80 is much easier to finish then an AR 80% lower. Go back and look at the pics. All I had to do was remove the four tabs from the top rails. Then remove the barrel block and drill the holes. All done in under a hour.
Putting the parts into the frame is pretty much the same as any other handgun frame.
I did put a link to the Polymer80 frame that is already finished, but it is a firearm and it has to be shipped to a dealer.
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GunnyUSMC
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Here are my two Glock 19s along with the P80.
Here is the P80 wit the 19 RTF slide.
And with the standard 19 slide.
il.bill
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Thank you, Gunny - this thread is SWEET!
I never considered building an 80% Glock before, but I read all the threads started by Gunny (not yet as addicted as I was to following 'rcmodel' - I read any and every thread in which 'rc' took the time to post) and this one has me shopping Brownell's for a P80 kit of my own.
I never considered building an 80% Glock before, but I read all the threads started by Gunny (not yet as addicted as I was to following 'rcmodel' - I read any and every thread in which 'rc' took the time to post) and this one has me shopping Brownell's for a P80 kit of my own.
JeeperCreeper
Member
Gunny, is the frame solid enough to file and ground down the frame to match the slide?
For example, to cut down the rear beaver tail to make it flush with the slide? Or file the front corners near the muzzle since the after-market slide is more rounded than stock?
For example, to cut down the rear beaver tail to make it flush with the slide? Or file the front corners near the muzzle since the after-market slide is more rounded than stock?
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GunnyUSMC
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I’m humbled. RC was a great guy, I could only hope to come close to what he was.
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GunnyUSMC
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Yes the frame can be filed on to shape it.
rpenmanparker
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Gunny and Capn Mac, thanks to you both. I’ve got it now.
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