Good job NRA

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andrewdl007

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Well, the NRA has officially helped an Anti-gunner get elected as sheriff of Santa Barbara County in California. In the last election, the NRA officially supported Coroner Bill Brown who subsequently won over other pro gun candidates for sheriff. Now, Sheriff Brown is refusing to renew nearly every Conceal Carry permit in the county. I don’t see why the NRA bothers to support people when they don’t spend the time to find out who the real progun candidates are. Locally in my home district in Virginia, the NRA supported the incumbent solely because he had a record as opposed to the man running against him who was new to politics. Once again, the NRA supported the man with a record as opposed to the candidate that is a life member of the NRA and who donates a sizeable amount to the NRA itself. I just don’t get it, we pay our memberships and donate yet they spend little time looking at the details that make a difference in the battle for our rights. Then, the NRA has the nerve to call me once a week asking for donations. I don’t know what to do because there is no other organization that has the power like the NRA.
 
so they get fooled now and then?

so does everyone else.

they endorse thousands of candidates. they are bound to make a few mistakes along the way.

i had a friend who was fond of saying that it was OK if he was imperfect because of what happened to the only perfect person that ever walked the face of the earth.
 
The NRA is not doing its job lately. (I am a member BTW) The NRA's support for HR 2640 has been the most egregious "mistake" that they have made lately. I would sincerely hate for the NRA to cease being an effective force to oppose those who take away our Second Amendment rights, but that is, unfortunately, the direction they are going. Those of us who are NRA members need to make our views known to those in the upper levels of the organization. The NRA is a well recognized institution, and we can not afford to lose it. That said, our only choice then, is to take it back. We can not allow the NRA to become a has-been organization. Either we take it back, reform it, and make it what it used to be, or we will eventually have to abandon it. There can be no compromise to protecting our freedoms, and I, for one, refuse to give the NRA a pass on its bad decisions.
 
I cannot imagine being able to be lawfully able to carry concealed one day, and the next because a permit expires, I am a criminal if I carry based on the whim of one man! One dutifully elected as a servant of the community no less!

It is infuriating to me!
 
People change their minds. Get over it. The NRA is not perfect: it is made up of PEOPLE. The people the NRA chooses to support or not support are also people and people LIE. Such is life.
 
I don’t know what to do because there is no other organization that has the power like the NRA.

1) Remember they are human, too. Mistakes occasionally happen and improper endorsements are made.
2) Let them know about their mistake (and why it was a mistake, not just a pissy "you screwed up" letter)
2) Pay your dues and then work to help make sure the same mistake doesn't happen again.


The NRA's support for HR 2640 has been the most egregious "mistake" that they have made lately.

Took the GOA "announcement" at face value, I presume? You might want to go back and reread the bill. There's a thread here are THR where it's being debated. Member Bartholomew Roberts has offered up an excellent analysis of the bill and why it isn't the demon-spawn the GOA anouncement makes it out to be.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=307220

Brad
 
what was NRA thinking? :scrutiny:

http://www.santamariatimes.com/articles/2007/05/13/news/news02.txt

Sheriff's gun policy assailed
By Chuck Schultz/Senior Staff Writer


To some local residents' dismay, Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown doesn't believe the public is made safer by permitting more people to carry loaded and concealed weapons.

And he cites a 2005 handgun murder that climaxed a road-rage incident in Buellton as evidence of why he feels that way.

“Philosophically, I probably tend to be more conservative in issuing concealed-weapons permits” than were his recent predecessors, said the first-term sheriff who took office in January. That's “based on my experiences and my career” of 30 years in law enforcement, half as police chief for the cities of Lompoc and Moscow, Idaho.

“I don't subscribe to the theory that it's safer in public if you have large numbers of armed people running around,” Brown added during an interview at his Sheriff's Department office near Goleta.

Gun advocates such as Larry Rankin of Santa Barbara hotly disagree.

In letters to the editors of the Santa Maria Times and other local newspapers, Rankin accuses Brown of violating the Second Amendment's right to bear arms by refusing to reissue some longstanding permits for concealed weapons, including one Rankin had for 10 years.

The sheriff's policy for reviewing applications for new and renewed concealed-weapon permits is “based on the model of a sovereign who knows what is best for his subjects, not a public servant elected to protect the rights of citizens,” wrote Rankin, who could not be reached for further comment. “A policy,” he added, “reminiscent of King George's government that was rejected by our founding fathers - not the constitutional model of the government they bequeathed us.”

Brown counters that he is only adhering to a policy adopted by his department in 2005 - nearly two years before he was sworn in as sheriff - that is also widely used by other law enforcement agencies in California, including the Santa Barbara Police Department.

During the past five months, he's approved 10 requests for concealed-weapons permits, denied 10 others and is still considering two other applications, according to sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Erik Raney.

Brown said his denials have been mostly because those applicants didn't prove a specific need for carrying a loaded gun hidden from view.

About 160 such permits exist countywide, more than half of those issued to law enforcement and judicial officers and the rest to private citizens, Raney said.

The concealed-gun policy, which may have been more laxly enforced previously, “requires review of the reasons for someone to renew a permit,” he explained. Either a new request or renewal application “must restate the reasons a firearm is required to be carried” by the person - and it can't be a general reason like “I want one for self-defense,” the sheriff added. “I won't issue a renewal license for those general reasons.”

In Rankin's case, he claimed he needed a concealed weapon to defend himself because he worked at night, Brown said, declining to be more specific about the details of that application.

“There has to be a reason other than ‘I want to protect myself.'” Brown remarked. “Were that the standard, arguably we'd be issuing thousands of concealed-weapons licenses, and I don't believe that would be a good public-safety policy.”

In another instance that garnered public criticism from the denied applicant, Brown refused to reissue a permit for a Santa Barbara woman who is a starter for track meets and for years used a handgun as her starter pistol instead of one that fired blanks.

Brown said a concealed-weapons permit, had he reissued one for her, wouldn't have allowed her to shoot live ammunition within city limits anyway, because that's illegal. There was also no good reason why she needed a permit to hide a loaded weapon, he added.

Although countless people own guns, the special permits are required only to carry loaded and concealed firearms - not, for instance, to transport unloaded guns in plain view in the trunk or interior of a vehicle.

Generally, there has to be a clear need for a concealed weapon before a permit will be granted, such as the applicant's occupation or specific threats to his or his family's safety, Brown said.

As support for his belief that issuing too many permits is dangerous, he cited the March 2005 handgun murder of Wayne Shaw by Louis Calvin in a Buellton parking lot, moments after a road-rage incident between the two men. Although Calvin, formerly of Las Vegas, had a Nevada concealed-weapons permit for his pistol, he hadn't obtained one in this county after moving to Solvang.

“If that (loaded) gun wasn't immediately at hand,” the sheriff believes, “you would have one man, who was a father, still alive” and the other not serving a 33-years-to-life sentence for murder.

“It just illustrates why, in my mind, it's not a good idea to have large numbers of people with guns in public. I'm not anti-gun - to the contrary, actuallyŠ I just don't believe that society, and particularly our county, would be any safer with a more liberal policy” on issuing concealed-weapons permits.

Brown has received some public backlash for his strict scrutiny of permit applications, even though he made it clear during his election campaign that “my policy would be to issue licenses sparingly,” he said. “I've had a few letters from people who were pro-guns and were disappointed in my position.”

But not from representatives of the citizens group Coalition Against Gun Violence, who insist there must be a clear need for concealed weapons before such permits are issued.

“In the past, these permits were automatically renewed,” coalition spokeswomen Toni Wellen and Ilene Pritikin wrote in response to Rankin's letters. “We are grateful that Sheriff Brown is doing his job in renewing concealed weapons only in those cases where necessary requirements are met Š Restricting the issuance of concealed-weapons permits makes sense, despite Mr. Rankin's assertions to the contrary.”

Chuck Schultz can be reached at 925-2691, Ext. 2241, or [email protected].

May 13, 2007
 
Give them a break... They had a tough fight trying to insure the right of dogs in california to keep their testicles. Thats got to take a lot of time.
 
“There has to be a reason other than ‘I want to protect myself.'” Brown remarked. “Were that the standard, arguably we'd be issuing thousands of concealed-weapons licenses, and I don't believe that would be a good public-safety policy.”

Stalin surely would have agreed.
 
To all those defending the NRA, know the facts. The NRA was contacted by many who have or will soon be denied their permits by the sheriff. The NRA has not responded to one complaint, verbally or in writing. Why support an organization that will not support you? And don't even think about saying that the NRA has bigger fish to fry.......You'd feel the same if it were your license about to be revoked.
 
The NRA was contacted by many who have or will soon be denied their permits by the sheriff. The NRA has not responded to one complaint, verbally or in writing.

He's in office now, what exactly would you like NRA to do? Go spank him?
He lied on his NRA survey to get a higher rating, plain and simple.

If they don't lower his rating before the next election, THEN you can get all worked up.

How much letter writing to the NRA was done BEFORE the election asking them to think twice about supporting him?
 
Either a new request or renewal application “must restate the reasons a firearm is required to be carried” by the person - and it can't be a general reason like “I want one for self-defense,” the sheriff added. “I won't issue a renewal license for those general reasons.”

Yeah, that would make my blood boil. :fire:

That sheriff ought to be careful... pissing off motivated people is rarely a smart move.

Wes
 
He's in office now, what exactly would you like NRA to do? Go spank him?
He lied on his NRA survey to get a higher rating, plain and simple.


That's exactly what we want, acknowledgement that they screwed up. The NRA knew of his position on concealed carry and gave the sheriff an "A" rating nonetheless. We've asked the NRA to send a mailing to the County residents giving the sheriff an "F" rating as he deserves. It's their duty to admit the mistake they made and to ensure that the voters have the full story for a more informed vote next time.

Nothing's plain and simple.
 
The NRA knew of his position on concealed carry and gave the sheriff an "A" rating nonetheless.

How exactly did they know his position before the election? Did he campaign on the promise of reducing the number of permits?

NRA doesn't go out and interview these people. They send them a survey. Some don't even bother to reply, most do in some way or another.

If they have held office before then their voting record on things is taken into account too but this guy was a Coroner before.

You are making the claim that NRA knew of his anti carry position before the election.

How do you know that and what form did that take?
 
How exactly did they know his position before the election? Did he campaign on the promise of reducing the number of permits?

NRA doesn't go out and interview these people. They send them a survey. Some don't even bother to reply, most do in some way or another.

If they have held office before then their voting record on things is taken into account too but this guy was a Coroner before.

You are making the claim that NRA knew of his anti carry position before the election.

How do you know that and what form did that take?


I know this because I've been active in the NRA for 35 years and have numerous associates who are former and current NRA board members. They had direct contact with the NRA before and during the election and made it abundantly clear that the sheriff was going to take this poition on concealed carry. I'm not blowing smoke here.
 
NRA doesn't go out and interview these people. They send them a survey. Some don't even bother to reply, most do in some way or another.

Then the NRA has no business weighing in on the topic.

The NRA is the yardstick here. They are the 800lb gorilla everyone listens to. There is no other nationally recognized group who gives out ratings that people pay attention to.

I submit that if the NRA isn't going to go the extra mile, and find out what the candidates actual views and plans are, then they have no business being the official tracker of candidates' support for 2nd Amendment rights.

If they're not going to properly carry this burden, they can stick to training people how to shoot.
 
TR asks:
How exactly did they know his position before the election? Did he campaign on the promise of reducing the number of permits?

Sheriff Brown is quoted in a post above:
Brown has received some public backlash for his strict scrutiny of permit applications, even though he made it clear during his election campaign that “my policy would be to issue licenses sparingly,” he said.


Asked and answered.

Pops
 
Let me add a bit of clarification to the word "sparingly." Of my 15 close associates that were issued concealed carry permits by the previous two sheriffs, not one was renewed by sheriff Brown.
 
By the way you need to remember that the NRA does not do any of this and is prohibited from using any of their money to do so.

The NRA PVF is the organization that rates politicians.

NRA member dues cannot be used for any election related purposes.

The guidelines for rating are:

The NRA-PVF ranks political candidates—irrespective of party affiliation—based on voting records, public statements and their responses to an NRA-PVF questionnaire.

Anything outside of that, rumor, personal knowledge, etc is hard to prove and could end up in lawsuit heaven if the rules are not equally applied to everyone.

It clearly sucks what happened there and it's important to make sure that this guy loses his rating because of DOCUMENTABLE (is that a word lol) facts.
 
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